2 person tent questions/advice

I have posted this before and is meant not to discourage folk but as a general reality check.
By the time you take into account exactly how much you spend getting all the bits (including postage) and you have made your second or third version , most probably you will not save money however you will have the satisfaction of having your own custom made shelter.
A way to cut down on possible mistakes is to make a full size version using cheap materials (like a painters drop sheet) and that will give you a much better idea of size , how the panels should be cut and possible performance if you have a lawn to set it up .
Just a quick tip on the design. The triangular roof panel will collect water when it rains .Draw a circle just a few inches behind the door apex and that is where it will be.
Franco

Thanks for the input.

I ended up modifying the design for a 48" front (same everything else) so i'm thinking that should help out the water run off.

As for the comment on cost and what not:
I'm doing it for the experience mostly but I also have a passion for this kind of thing. I'm very much a tinkerer and I'm also planning on making some custom gear for touring and bike camping…which is ultimately what this tent will be used for. I really REALLY want to cycle across the USA next summer (either West > East or Canada to Mexico – not sure which yet) and I want to make all the gear for it. (bike bags, tent, backpack, etc)

Here are some pictures for the new design. I've also added a nylon strap to the middle to try and avoid water from pooling. All other straps are added as well.

Question: I like the 48" in the front (and extra width I added after realizing the guys were pretty cramped when I set them inside) better anyway but do you think it will even help solve the problem of pooling? If not, I'm very open to a tunnel tent. I started with this design because I thought it would be easier to make, I liked the flexibility of pitching (poles or guy lines) and having straight poles instead of curved ones. Again, I'm no expert and haven't designed my own tents before so I'm not sure what is possible with some of the materials I'll be working with.

The entry poles are not triangulated and so need tie downs for stability? If you use the points on the fly to the left and right, the force will tend to pull the stakes up and out of the ground. Stakes work better the more the are resisting shear i.e. further away from the tent.

If you have stakes wide of the tent, you no longer need the cross pole since it will be under tension anyway. This is true even with close in stakes, but not as stiff.

You still have a problem with pooling water. You need a steeper drop to the foot area?

I like the design. It is similar to something I've been thinking of making. I'm still absorbing the design considerations and possibilities so your efforts are helpful. I look forward to your progress!
Nate

Thanks for the input.

I'm going to start from scratch on a new design…I'm thinking that side entry would be better and that would greatly help with the potential problems that are coming up. Probably something similar to the Lunar Duo but without the curved top and a wider profile.

Along the same lines…I'm considering using a single pole inside the tent and well thought out guy lines (possibly a 2nd, smaller pole outside the tent on the other side) to cut down on the weight of a 2nd pole and more material…something close to a 4 foot pole on one side and a short one on the other, but outside the frame.

This article on this site plus parts 2 and 3 give very good arguments for tunnel tents
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/tunnel_tents_part1.html?id=a7ka27pz:69.20.70.86

and features home made examples

geometry simpler for home construction amongst the other reasons for a tunnel design

I would suggest reviewing this: http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/DIY_RNCTents.htm
This is Roger C.'s web site for his tents. I consider 3 pounds to be a maximum for backpacking for the two of us, 2 would be better. Note that you can also get the plans for two person tarp-tents here: http://www.tarptent.com/projects/tarpdesign.html

A nice looking design, but as Franco pointed out, a more continuous curve is probably needed to prevent puddling. Really, a flat top is not good for shedding rain, but, it could work with proper tension, since it could flow towards the back. Personnaly, I like to simply crawl in, so the back and front are the same size, though.

So I had some time yesterday to test my patience with some drop cloth and gorilla tape and made a prototype of my new design.

The size is just about perfect for what I want. Only thing I would want to change is to have catenary curves as it was hard to come up with a taut tent (probably a lot due to the material though. I think catenary curves would end up making this a much more complicated project than I want to deal with right now so I'm going to hold off unless someone tries to convince me otherwise.

I'm also tempted to make the vestibules larger (or at least one larger) to fit my bicycles. However, I'm already planning on making a silnylon cover for my bike to replace the 7-pounder I'm currently lugging around with me.

This design was inspired heavily by the SMD Lunar Duo. I plan on trying out some adjustable nylon straps for staking in just like the Duo uses but this will have some different dimensions (and not a curved top). The inside mesh and bathtub will be done with my own design as I'm not so sure I like the idea of using shock cord to support the bathtub.

I really like the curved zipper/door in the mesh but I'm thinking that a triangle will be more feasible.

As always, comments and questions are encouraged. I think I'll give it a week before I order materials and dive in.

Try moving the pole line over your head or at least shoulders. This will keep the fly from being inches from your nose and not detract from the space. The pitch is steeper over your head and shallower over your feet.

I really like the zip on both sides along with dual vestibuli. We just might be sharing patterns!

The idea is something a little borrowed from this:
http://www.tarptent.com/sublite.html

One thing I didn't post before was that I had added vents to the reinforced pole area:

Not a bad idea to move it down a bit, but the fly is still at least 18" above my face. I realize that the attached images didn't really show that well…but it's 24" high at the ends of the bath tub…here's a better view:

and the same view but with the ridgeline shifted:

One more of the new "shifted mod".

I'm still a bit unsure which I like more. I guess with it shifted like this I can drop the height down a few inches and it shouldn't be noticed as much. Only downside I see is losing a very small amount of square footage in the vestibules…which shouldn't be a problem

As of now I'm planning to put off building a complete tent like this and use a tarp tent for the time being basically the same thing as this but with a tarp and detachable mesh/bathtub).

I'm a fan of that approach for a two person shelter. This should help:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=56641&skip_to_post=482874#482874

I didn't bother with the offset ridge line, and haven't had any issues. Also made an inner net tent shortly afterwards. Here are a couple more photos.

What are the dimensions of the bathtub in it? Mine's supposed to be around 54x90x3 (4.5 x 8.5 feet, 3 inches high).

Looks like it's a little smaller than what I'm planning so I'm interested to see what you think of the size and design…anything you'd change about it if you could?

I hadn't found your tarp yet but it's getting me excited for this again (was planning to put it off until Spring…might bite the bullet and order soon now).

Jordan,

I've been making 1 and 2 person tents similar to yours for about 40 years now. Here are my arguments for leaving your ridge line at the mid point of your tent.

(1) It makes designing and patterning easier because one half is simply the mirror image of the other half.

(2) I like having the high point of the tent in the center. It is where I position myself while changing clothes, for example, and things at either end of the tent are equal distance from me and easy to reach.

(3) Moving the ridgeline towards the head reduces the angle of the longer tail end. The flatter long end is then more vulnerable to water pooling and snow build up.

(4) The longer end of the tent also makes it harder to keep things tight and reduce flapping because it creates a larger piece of unsupported fabric. I notice that several of the tents that have this design (e.g. SMD Haven, Peak 1 Cobra, etc.) have added an additional tie out to compensate for this.

(5) Having one longer end makes it more difficult to reach things that have worked their way down there.

(6) With a symmetrical tent (mid point center line) one doesn't have to figure out which way to have your head prior to setting up the tent. Just set it up and figure it out once inside.

Everyone has their preferences. These are mine. No right or wrong here.

Here's a photo of a 4 lb, side entry, 2 person, 2 vestibule, 2 door tent I made about 35 years ago. It is symmnetrical end to end and side to side. Still in good shape except for the internal door zippers. It has an arched cross pole and the two vertical poles can be rotated and adjusted to tighten the tent from the inside without leaving the tent.

Jordan,

Daryl

The floor of the inner tent is 90×46. The walls are 5 inches tall, which is a really nice feature in heavy rain. Since I am 6'1" with wide shoulders, I figured it would be a tight fit with my wife, but honestly since the side walls are completely vertical it isn't cramped and we can both sit up at the same time as well. The intent certainly wasn't for a very spacious tent, but it works well for us. 1.9 lbs for a double wall tent (minus stakes and trekking poles), using only 30d silnylon, and .7oz no see um mesh.

…I've got all my materials here now. I'm now ready to get serious with my tent after finishing my "warm-up" projects:
https://dpcr19kltm61a.cloudfront.net/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1344266469_66463.jpg
hammock setup (gathered-end hammock 1.1oz ripstop, bug net and 8×10 flat tarp 1.4oz sil)

Now, I'm ready to make the jump to this tent again but I have just a quick question for you guys:

Where do you think I should put the cat curves? If you look at the attached picture, I'm already set on the ridge-line highlighted in Green, but undecided about the rest…two seams, one of them I highlighted in pink, will have zippers and it doesn't seem like a great idea to put curves there to me…but I'm no expert.

If I do all the seams/hems except the zippered ones it comes to 16 cuts I have to make, but with only 3 different curves (silver lining I guess) so it would add a good chunk of time to the project.

Edit: pic doesn't show dimensions very well…here they are for anyone interested:

Bathtub – 90" by 54" and 4" tall
Width – 112" at the bottom (door stake to door stake) and 56" at the top (pole tip to pole tip).
Height – 48"
Length – 114"
Vestibules – 22" (for 11sq/ft each)

I'd put them everywhere – I think you'll get a noticeably tighter pitch. I would do the zipper seam as well, I don't think you'll have any problems there. The curve is so slight that it won't cause any issues with the zipper.

Thought I should finally get around to updating you fine people on this project.

It's been done for a while now but I got lazy/busy and with the seasons finally changing here in the midwest I'm getting the bug again and set up my tent to take some pictures (and seam seal it as soon as the weather permits).

Dimensions:

49" tall
54" by 96", 4" tall bathtub floor (36sqft)
28" by 57" per vestibule (22 square feet)

Weights:

Fly (30D Silnylon): 20.4oz including guy lines
Netting/Floor (30D Silnylon and NoSeeUm mesh): 18.75oz
(2) Carbon Fiber poles – 3.75oz
(6) Stakes – 1.95oz
6.5" by 18" Cuben Fiber Stuff Sack – .25oz

Total Weight: 45.10oz

Materials:
$72 — 12yd Silnylon (8.3 for fly, 3 for bathtub floor)
$10 — 3yd NoSeeUm (inner net)
$0 — leftover 200D oxford for reinforcements
$8 — 12ft of #3 zipper for inside, 8ft of #5 zipper for outside, 6 double tabbed sliders
$10 — rest of the notions (plastics, tieouts and guy line)
$40 — (2)51" Carbon Fiber Poles from Quest Outfitters–assembly needed

Cost: $140

Pictures:

I'd be happy to take some detailed pictures of certain parts of the tent upon request…I plan to take some of the tie outs points and the 6×17 cuben stuff sack which holds the poles, tent and stakes each in their own sections and has a handle.

Overall, very happy with how this turned out. With some more fiddling I can get a better looking pitch but the doors will always have a small amount of wrinkles in them. However, I think that if I had used a centenary curve on the zippered seam I wouldn't have a problem with this. Regardless, it functions the same.

I however, have two things I still want to change about the tent…the netting is slightly too big so it droops a little and I want to add a strip of sil to cover the outer zippers. Will only take 30 minutes to alter those and then I'll have no complaints left.

Once I seam seal it and get a few nights in it to test condensation issues I'll know whether or not I need to add some vents…thinking I'll need to so I'm already looking into that.

JP
"Wrinkles"
I am familiar with those, my mirror has them too.

Try guying out the door panels further out, about 5" to 10" further out.
The tip will be further away from the ground.

Thanks! I'd forgotten that I designed the tent to have the other 4 points sit a few inches off the ground (they're currently only around 1" instead of 3".

I'll try to move things around once the ground isn't as soft/muddy and post back results in a few days.

Nice job on the tent! I lost track of this thread and had hoped to see the finished product a while back. It looks professionally made and very roomy for the weight.

How are you liking it? Have you had it out in rough weather yet?

I'll be working on a solo, single entrance version of the design soon, and one thing I'm targeting is to tighten up the side panels. I may reorient the panels to have the straight grain running along the bottom edge, rather than overhead.

It's not a huge issue in the 2 person version, but I did go back and add grosgrain along those edges which helped somewhat with flapping in the breeze.

Mine has worked out pretty well. I haven't been out nearly as much as I'd like the past 2 years (quite a few life milestones…good ones like getting married and buying a house)

The tent has held up great so far though. The tieouts ended up not working out that great but it was an issue with using slippery cordage and I ordered more of the orange glowire I used on the doors which holds much better:
http://diygearsupply.com/product/reflective-glowire/

Since that change, I haven't had issues with flapping since the adjustable tieouts aren't slowly slipping through the linelocs now during strong gusts.

Condensation hasn't been much of an issue but I'm still thinking about adding vents. The only time it's been bad was when I pitched the fly really low to the ground.

Only frustration has been poles slipping when weather gets bad. It hasn't collapsed or anything but trekking poles would slip a few inches and allow the fly to sag and flap. I believe this was due to the fly/pole handles not holding well when condensation built up over night. I just added some silicone dots where the handles rest and adjusted my velcro ties (which at located just above the top of the door zippers) and that has helped a lot. The downside to this is that the silicone isn't a permanent fix and has peeled off a few times now. If I were to do a through-hike I'd be sure to bring along a small tube of sealant with me but that's probably something I'd want anyway (along with a few small patches of silnylon) for repairs.

Overall, I'd say it handles rough weather decently. I've added guy-out points to the center of the square sides (mainly to pull out the sides if I felt I needed more room), 2/3 of the way along the seams and one the ridgline above the door…you can see a reflective loop on the seam and another on the ridgeline in the picture below which was taken at sunset).

I actually made a slightly larger (for 2 people and a dog at their feet) version that was commissioned for a Reddit user with some extra features like vents. I wish it pitched a bit cleaner but a large part of that problem was uneven ground at my apartment.

The attachment system at the corners seemed much better than mine (3/4" grossgrain and buckles) and having vents at either end were also helpful.

I also made some interesting trekking pole sleeves but I didn't take pictures…just a 5" long tube with extra silicone at the top (which prevents it from slipping on the fly) and a loop on the side which attaches to the fly near the top of the door zipper to hold it in place.

Good to hear it's working out well. It's neat to see another version, looks spacious but still really taut when set up. I think it's a fairly MYOG-friendly design because of the symmetrical panels, even though it does add quite a bit more work overall when making the inner net tent.

I've had some occasional condensation build up on mine but nothing that convinces me to add a vent on the next version yet. The worst was in a nearly freezing fog that soaked everything anyway. I also have the trekking pole tips going thru grommets, rather than handle-up, and I'll probably stick with that. Some heavy material above the grommet protects the sil from the metal tip.

I'll have to find a picture of the tent in the wind. It really shows how the overhead panels stay put, while the sides deflect a lot. More annoying than anything, but I'm definitely hoping on my next version that the sides look as stable as on Daryl's tent, posted earlier in the thread.

Ahh, it's good to have the myog bug again! I'll share the results if I ever actually find the time to work on this thing.

Sean,

That's interesting that you mount your poles the other way around.

It's difficult to see, but I did have grommets for my pulls at the midpoint of my bathtub floor. (https://dpcr19kltm61a.cloudfront.net/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1366316904_80152.jpg) This was done to hold a carbon pole in place as well as keep trekking poles from being pushed into loose soil over time. I found out later that it also helps to secure the floor at the center (which I helps with using the zippered doors).

A significant downside to my method is securing the pole handle at the top which has it's own challenges.

For using carbon poles I really like my grommet at the ground but I think most/all of the benefits could be emulated with a simple mod such as a pole sleeve.

What made you go the route you did?

Jordo 99,
Our Tarptents have a grommet at the top to lock the pole in place.
With some shelters , the Contrail for example, because the area where the pole ends is pretty much a narrow pocket already, using the pole handle up works well enough but it still isn't as secure as having the carbide tip inside a grommet.
We also have add on "pockets" that are secured to the grosgrain that holds those grommets for folk that like to use the handle up but again there is a grater chance of those coming undone than doing it the other way.

(BTW, I often use mine handle up but setting up the shelter really taut is essential for it to work well…)

Is that stitchery on a production tent?

Ryan