Ti-Tri Without The Tent Stakes

[John Coyle]

I have a Trail Designs Sidewinder Ti-Tri for the Evernew/REI .9L pot. I've been making coffee with it at home on top of the stove in the alcohol mode–with the vent fan on. The other day I forgot to use the titanium tent stakes that came with the kit and put the pot directly on top of the cone just like the conventional Caldera Cones. This puts the pot 1/2 inch closer to the stove than it normally would be. This is not the method approved by Trail Designs. The stove actually works this way, and in fact, seems to be more thrifty with fuel. I'm getting consistent boils of 2 1/2 cups of water using 1/2 oz of fuel, where before it would take 3/4 oz of fuel. That's a pretty significant difference. Has any one else had this experience?

[Phillip Damiano]

Test's I've done has shown that the 12-10 stove is more efficient with the pot fully inserted, but boil times increases.

[Nathan Stuart]

Yep more efficient but takes longer. No issue at home but might be if its cold and windy in the field

[Jim Colten]

Yep more efficient but takes longer. No issue at home but might be if its cold and windy in the field

OR … with the pot more completely inside the cone, shielded from wind and more exposed to the heat it might be a net plus to not use the stakes. Clearly needs field testing?

Perhaps Trail Designs folks could weigh in on the pros and cons if they have test data?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

If you have a ULC style one, you can replace the stakes with a silicone band that you leave in place on the pot – simpler and lighter.

With the Sidewinder, you can indeed just have it lower and you'll get more fuel efficient burns in exchange for a longer wait (to a certain point). Better yet though, replace the 12-10 stove with a shorter stove (ie. Zelph's Starlyte with pot support removed) and you can retain the fast boil times. Specifics vary, but you normally need to a add a few extra hole punches around the base of the cone to get optimum speed from the Starlyte.

The other advantages of the Starlyte are that the wicking material makes it far easier to light in cold conditions, you can't spill fuel and without the pot support you can use a snap on lid (available from Zelph) to store fuel in the stove so there's no need to measure and waste and/or recover fuel after.

[Bradley Danyluk]

I actually used my Ti-Tri (non-sidewinder) in wood-burning mode without tent stakes (seems to be a big no-no…) the other day by accident. Had no issues other than a lot of soot. But there's normally a fair bit anyway.

[Phillip Damiano]

I tried some tests with my sidewinder cooking kit and a Evernew .9L titanium pot in alchohol mode with the tent pegs and without, i had much faster boil times using the stakes.

Longer burn times without stakes, but longer to boil.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I've never used my Sidewinder for wood without the two stakes for a pot support.

I'm afeared of gittin' excommunicated by Trail designs.
But that sucker is VERY effecient with any of the 3 fuels it's made for.

I've heard of other heresey, like burning wood in it without the Inferno insert kit.

But… I think Trail Designs has tested it SO much that they have it right in every mode.

"If everything else fails follow the directions."

[A W]

Dan,

Off this forum's advice I just went with the modified Starlyte + Tri Ti (and Evernew 900ml) combo.

Are you saying the best way to use this setup is w/o the stakes entirely? I was going to start testing boil times myself this weekend.

Thanks!

[Hikin’ Jim]

I've tried the Ti-Tri with a 1300ml Evernew pot.
Without stakes, it doesn't work well at all with wood. (forgot the stakes one time)
With alcohol, I saw little or no change without stakes (with a 1300ml pot).

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Jennifer Mitol]

I – being an alcohol newbie and generally all around technologically inept – didn't know I was supposed to use the stakes with the caldera cone and 12-10 alcohol stove. I have the 900ml evernew short/wide pot. Could not for the life of me get 2 cups of water to boil in my kitchen (I was using everclear). 1 oz, burned out, the water barely bubbled.

Then I read the directions.

With the stakes it worked just fine, I was able to get 2 cups to boil with about 3/4 oz…but then that meant I had to bring the stakes along. Thanks to all you fine folks who make me buy more stuff, I got the modified starlyte, which is shorter and smaller than the 12-10, and now I can get 2 cups to boil with a half ounce of denatured alcohol…and no stakes. Which means it all fits in the pot!! No more extra stuff to carry!!!

[Daniel Fish]

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[A W]

Daniel – thank you for the write-up!

By chance have you ever tried using the Starlyte stove?

[Daniel Fish]

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[Daniel Fish]

…

[Jennifer Mitol]

In my kitchen (trying it in the field next weekend) I was able to get 2 cups cold tap water to boil in about 7:30 mins with 1/2 ounce of denatured alcohol. It kept boiling for 12 mins before it burned out.

The starlyte is a smaller profile and seems to work very well in the cone without the stakes.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Daniel,

A stove certainly could produce more CO if it were starved of oxygen. On the other hand, if fuel consumption is relatively normal (or drops), and boil times extend, then probably what's happening is that one is just slowing the boil down. Of course, it would be nice to have a CO measuring device, but I wouldn't automatically assume more CO is being produced.

Interestingly, Trail Designs has come out with a device designed to slow down their 12-10 burner: a simmer ring that fits over the air inlets on the stoves. They were showing it at the recent GGG at Henry Coe State Park. I ran it. It had a long, slow burn, and baked a muffin in my Ti-Tri set up.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Jennifer Mitol]

Here is the thread that convinced me to buy the starlyte. Check out the you tube video embedded in the first post.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=73981&skip_to_post=632094

[Dean F.]

I recently did a bunch of testing to compare the 12-10 in various modes with the Starlyte in various modes. (The thread is around here on BPL, somewhere.) One that I tried was the 12-10 without the tent stakes, as you describe. I use one of the short/wide Evernew .9L pots. And, yes, it worked just fine. I had the opposite effect from you, though- I got a slightly faster boil time while using trivially more fuel.

I'm at 7000 feet elevation, so I'm sure that the leanness of the burn changes things somehow.

I'm also sure that the efficiency of doing this vary considerably depending upon what make of pot you use- some certainly hang lower than others.

Clearly, you can't do this when burning wood.

[Daniel Fish]

…

[Kenneth Jacobs]

Does anyone have boil time comparison data of the original Starlyte w/ lid vs. the new modified Starlyte w/ lid when used with the Sidewinder Ti-Tri w/ Evernew 0.9L? I have the original Starlyte w/ lid and am interested in how much of an improvement this new modified version provides.

TIA

KJ

[William Chilton]

The modified Starlyte won't give you an improvement in boil times. The modified Starlyte gives slower but more fuel efficient boils.

[Ken Larson]

To get the terminology in my mind correct the ORIGINAL (stove pic right) and MODIFIED (stove pic left)?

[Jennifer Mitol]

Not sure about the previous poster about modified vs non modified…

I get a great rolling boil of 2 cups cold tap water at 6-7 minutes in my kitchen with the modified Starlyte and a half ounce of alcohol, whereas Ken can't get any boil with the original.

I have the evernew .9L pot and the caldera cone Ti-Tri sidewinder. With the modified starlyte I did not use the stakes.

The starlyte is quite a bit more efficient than the 12-10 for me, as I needed at least 3/4 ounce to get a boil, sometimes a full ounce.

But I also don't know at all what I'm doing. So there's that.

[William Chilton]

I spent a large part of last weekend avoiding what I should have been doing and instead testing the modified Starlyte against the standard lidded Starlyte, including some against the 12-10 stove, with various pot and windscreen set ups. There were 36 tests in all. In every set up except one, the modified Starlyte used less fuel but had a longer boil time than the standard. In the exception, the modified used a minute amount more fuel (0.16g), but still had a longer boil time. (400ml of water was heated from 14 to 98 degrees C.)
Both Starlytes were more efficient than the 12-10 stove when used with a 1/2 inch shim (in a Keg-F and a Sidewinder with wide 0.6 liter Evernew). What did surprise me was that in the Keg-F, the standard Starlyte had a faster boil time than the 12-10 as well.

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