Cuben Haven arrived

I find it funny that after all this discussion, and the now known weight of this inner tent, that the SMD web-site still has the wrong weight listed.

I would be upset if my item came in ounces over the listed weight (couple of grams fine, but items can't be off by ounces ever), and obviously everyone purchasing these isn't going to read this so I guess they'll be upset.

Also, since they are changing materials, does this now mean all items utilizing this new netting will have incorrect weights as well?

The issue I see is that the listed weight is an important criteria which people use to make their purchase decision, relative to their other purchase options, and they expect only normal possible variances.

The lighter and more expensive the item, the more important it becomes, and the less variance they expect. I suspect that when paired with the silnylon Haven, for a 32oz tent, the objection would have been less than when expecting a 24oz tent paired with the Cuben Haven.

It is especially interesting that some mfgs may report to the nearest 0.1 oz, and be right on the money.

I have no doubt that it is a problem which becomes compounded by scale of operations, outsourcing, raw material variances between suppliers, etc. However, it IS still the responsibility of the manufacturer to maintain the listed information as accurately as possible. The difficulty of maintaining correct information and on-spec product does not absolve the mfg of the responsibility, it is but one more cost of running a successful business, and that applies to most industries.

In this particular case, I dont think 0.5 oz would have raised an eyebrow. 2oz does, especially when it turns out that the mfg knew about it and failed to inform potential buyers.

In my industry, if I shipped a company a product that did not meet the purchase specification, it would be sent right back with a corporate complaint filed, and you would possibly lose a customer. Maybe I just have higher standards based on real world business, I dont know. I am used to mfgs bending over backwards to insure customers have the correct info on their products. It insures a happy customer if their expectations are met, and that means a repeat customer.

Saw the Net Tent for the Haven has a note on the features section stating the current weight, and and details regarding the difference.

Hi, I just opened my Cuben haven tarp and net tent and weighed them. On my Pelouze scale the tarp weighs 9.8 oz (279g) and the net tent weighs 16.0 (453g), both without the supplied sacks. I haven't set them up yet but I expect the total setup to weigh in at about 28oz with 6 easton nano stakes and some extra spectra line. I can't wait to set it up but its dark now!

As an owner of plenty of cottage industry "cuben" bling !! I'd be dissapointed with a 2oz difference on a shelter total weight. Maybe a 1/2 oz variance on a tent/tarp is ok.

We pay big bucks for this gear and trust the manurfacturer to be on the money with weight. I have read all the comments and think a good explanation has been given for why the extra weight but it's nice to know that before purchase, not find out when it arrives.

Still if the website isn't reflecting what the net tent actually weighs I think thats dodgy after all the explanations and chat here about it.

The much easier solution is to move away from those manufacturers who are full of excuses. I already have.

–B.G.–

Hey guys, did you not see Mike's response a couple of posts up "Saw the Net Tent for the Haven has a note on the features section stating the current weight, and and details regarding the difference."

Looks like they are making note of this and pointing it out, although I don't see why the posted weight is still 14 oz, is it that tough to change on the site?

> On my Pelouze scale the tarp weighs 9.8 oz (279g)

Seems like a lot of the Haven Tarps are actually coming in UNDER the spec weight.
That's what I like to see.

Manfred, to get back to your question…

Typically when one is purchasing any raw materials tolerances are available from the material manufacturer. I don't know if this holds true for all fabrics, no experience here to answer that. I think to come to a reasonable number on what an acceptable variance is we'd have to have an idea of the tolerances of the materials utilized.

For me, 5% seems reasonable and my gut feeling tells me that should be a realistic number to hit, but again I don't know.

It really shouldn't be too difficult for gear manufacturers to go the extra mile and work out some tolerances for their finished products in order to publish maximum weights as well as 'typical' and/or minimum weights; the weight has got to be one of the first specs a UL backpacker looks at. (gauntlet thrown down)

Every piece of UL gear I have purchased from cottage manufacturers has pretty much come in right at or near specs with maybe a few grams here or there. This includes my Six Moons Wild Oasis. And I have bought a lot of UL gear.

zPacks has been the most accurate, usually within a couple grams and I have probably purchased at least a dozen different items from Joe, with different kinds of materials.

The cottage manufacturers are probably more attuned to weight than the traditional manufacturers, and they usually market their products based on weight… more than value, price, etc. And we purchase these products with a "heavy" (pun intended) eye on the weight. So a large variation of more than a couple percentage points is not going to be acceptable to most of their customers.

If a manufacturer cannot produce a product at a consistent weight, then it would be best to publish the weight range. Gossamer Gear this. The weight spec on a 3/4 length Nightlight pad is: 10.6 – 12.8 oz. (340 – 352 g.)

That is quite a variation, but the buyer knows it before purchasing it.

I just wanted to get back to the OP on the tent. It looks awesome. I wish I had the coin to pick one of those up. SMD website makes it sound like these are going like pancakes.

Looking forward to the first field report,.,,

Manfred, could you post some pictures showing how small this all packs down together? I'm looking into buying one as well, but are unsure of the bulkfactor in real world conditions.

/Mikkel

They do strive for accuracy in weights and in my experience are below the stated weight (I have owned a Scout and currently own a Trekker in Silnylon. After seam sealing in a cuben stuff sack its .5 oz. under the stated weight. The scout was the same way, 2 oz. under before sealing. The net tents, while heavier than stated, are not the expensive component of the Haven system. They are reasonably priced. You could sell it and see if someone like Bearpaw could provide a lighter product. I am not sure, given the space, that anyone else could beat that 4 oz. spec.

I too want to echo my support of SMD as many others have.

This year I have purchased two SMD Skyscape X shelters from Six Moon Designs. I purchased each one from two of the different production releases that they had – in other words, the shelters were made at two different times in two different batches.

Both of them where *exactly* 425 grams! As somebody who buys a number of shelters throughout the year (8 last year, 6 this year) I have to say that when the second one showed up and it was dead-on exactly what the manufacturer claimed weight would be was truly amazed – I wrote SMD an email expressing my appreciation to quality control on of their products. To anybody who doubts the QC of SMD on a large scale basis, I simply find that hard to accept.

–Abela

> could you post some pictures showing how small this all packs down together?

Hi Mikkel,

Here is the size of the Cuben Haven packed with all cordage and stakes.

Does this give you what you wanted to know about the size?
Al

I recently ordered a Haven Net Tent from hikelight.com – weight of the net tent (stock) without the stuff sack is 13.4 oz. I was pretty surprised as I was expecting it to weigh 16+ oz

Maybe they have some of the old supply of net tents? Anyway, just a heads up for any one thinking of buying the Haven tarp…

Thanks, John – I got one at 13.5 oz. Now if only the Haven tarp would just be back in stock in cuben…