New to backpacking, how does all of my gear stack up?

You might want to read these

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=31018&skip_to_post=262364#262364

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00234.html

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/lw_testimony_shortt_journey.html

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/lw_testimony_fun_goes_up.html

http://andrewskurka.com/product/ultimate-hikers-gear-guide/

http://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpackin-Tips-Inexpensive-Lightweight/dp/0762763841/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314629714&sr=1-1

http://andrewskurka.com/2012/why-waterproof-shoes-will-not-keep-your-feet-dry/

http://andrewskurka.com/

And watch these

http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com/search/label/video%20tutorials

Looks like you covered all the bases.

At a glance, my suggestions:
-Ditch the camelbak pack, just stick the bladder in your Deuter for hiking.
-You only need one canister of fuel unless you're doing all the cooking for 3 or more people. I can make a 4 oz canister last 20 or more meals if you're just boiling water.
-get an aluminum bubble-wrap windshield sunshade at the auto parts store and make a cozy for what ever you eat out of, pot or ziplock. It reduces fuel needs by 'coast cooking' and you won't burn yourself either.
-Ditch the surefire. your headlamp is plenty of light for around camp.
-I'd swap the knife for a swiss army esquire (scissors) but if big knives are your thing, I know how people get without them. I hike with a buddy who carries THREE. I personally cut dozens of moleskin, tape and string pieces with scissors and rarely even open the knife blade.
-Ditch the blue poly tarp. It's bulky and heavy. good site selection and prep eliminates the need for a ground cloth. If you need a clean place to stand in front of your tent, take a trash bag and lay it down. If you feel you MUST have a groundcloth, get painter drop plastic and cut it down, or google shrink-wrap window insulation. It's much more durable than it looks.
Swap the cotton hoodie for fleece, or if you can swing it, a synthetic puffy. Many reasons for this. better warmth to weight ratio, and nicer to sleep in if need-be.
Get a topo map to supplement the GPS. Trust me.

For your future list:
You can get some really decent trekking poles at K-Mart, WalMart, Big 5, Sports Authority, Dicks, or Costco for under $30 a pair. No need to spend a Benjamin on Name Brand. I personally have a pair from Costco that cost $28 and are still rock solid despite me beating the p!$s out of them for the last 6 months climbing 14'ers.
A decent compass is $10-15 at any Big 5 or similar. Brunton makes a good one.

Good luck and enjoy the trip! Don't get too hung up on gear. go have fun.

Thanks for the feedback and links! I live in Sacramento, CA, and plan to backpack around this area for a while. Anyone who has been to California knows that we have a diverse climate, cold and rainy on the coast, scorching hot in the valley, and often snow at higher elevation.

I plan on using a scale to weigh the individual weight of each of my items to get a comprehensive idea of how much weight I'm really carrying.

Good suggestion on the puffy jacket. I'll look around next paycheck and see what I can find.

I don't think I'm ready for ultralight or superultralight anytime soon, but I'd like to eventually get to that point if money and skill permits.

Somebody just posted this link on another thread, and I think its great. And could be helpful to you. Its a way to get started without spending a lot of money. Mostly, at first, you just need to get a basic kit and get out there. Once you start backpacking you can understand your needs and refine as you see fit. (Like a puffy jacket is really nice, but at first, given the expense, maybe just take fleece. Its cheap, durable, warm and will be fine for beginning trips. Thermal +fleece + rain jacket is a pretty good night-time setup when the sun sets.)

Have fun!

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?190-Cheap-Gear-%96-How-to-Dirt-Bag-and-Deal-Shop-Like-a-Professional

Ditch the Nalgene. Use a plastic juice bottle instead. I paid 1.59 for a nice 64 oz bottle of cranapple, saving 5 oz, and used the difference to buy some vodka for cocktails to celebrate.

For a bladder, I like the Nathan zip tops. Lighter than the Platys by ~1.5 oz IIRC.

The Katadyn works well, but a Sawyer filter is a half-pound lighter.
Fill the bladder with dirty water and have it pass through the filter to your nipple or juice bottle. You can roll-squeeze the bladder and it will filter 32oz real fast.

Your tent is 3+ pounds, but at $25, it is hard to tackle right away. Sleeping arrangements are probably the most personal of the choices. Prices go through the roof for UL gear. Tarps make for excellent first MYOG projects and with cheaper materials you can stay under $75 and under 1 LB.

Good luck!

I took my maiden voyage with two of my friends this weekend. We went up to Silver Lake and hiked over to Granite Lake for the night. Beautiful views. I had the lightest pack by far.

We hiked to Hidden Lake the next day, but we were disappointed by the poor water quality and mosquito infestation, so we hiked back to Granite Lake and sat up camp in the same spot as the night before. Six miles in total, 1 on Friday, 4 on Saturday, and 1 on Sunday.

Pack final weight was about 25 lbs not including water. I removed my tarp, extra clothes, extra flashlight, and brought a .357 mag with hip holster and 12 rounds. Probably won't bring the gun next time, but it was nice to know it was there.

Glad to hear you had a good time. Hopefully you were able to identify some tweaks to your list, so next time is even more enjoyable.

It's amazing how much more fun it is when you're not a pack mule, right?

Don't get hung up on what weighs what, just make smart choices and enjoy the trips.

Out of curiosity, the 25#'s included food but not water? If so, that's pretty dang respectable for a first try.

The 25 lbs did not include food. One of the guys who went didn't bring anything for dinner, so we bought the food and he carried the food in a bear canister. Food wasn't too heavy though, was two mountain house dinners (lasagna and beef stroganoff, 4 servings a piece), freeze dried green beans, clif builders bars, instant oatmeal, jerky, dried cranberries, pistachios, some Pringles. Everything bulky was repackaged.

We ate like kings!

Here's my quick opinions on your gearlist….not try to be harsh, just quick.

Deuter Act Lite 65+10 pack
Kinda big. I think their air back systems are overkill too, but some people love it.
Suisse Sport +30F bag
Seems like a good buy for the price if the weight isn't a total lie
REI Light-Core 1.5 pad
Good
Nalgene 1L bottle
Too heavy. Use disposable water bottle to save nearly 0.5 lbs
Camelbak 1.5L hydration pack
I don't like these…some do. Pain to fill IMO.
Ozark Trail Scout Jr. Dome tent with plain blue tarp
Okay but sounds heavy.
Merrell Moab Mid Gore Tex boots
Boots? No. Gore-Tex? No.
Snow Peak Giga Power stove with Piezo, plus two canisters of fuel
One canister
GSI Soloist cookset with Coughlan knife/spoon/fork
Does 'cookset' mean more than one pot? Bring one + a spoon.
Katadyn Hiker water purifier
A bit heavy and hassle to use, but okay if you don't like chemcials. I'd use Cl02.
Black Diamond Storm headlamp
Surefire C2-Centurion flash light
Bring one.
Smith and Wesson Special Ops knife with partial serrated blade
Too heavy. Unneeded.
Light my Fire Swedish Firesteel Army model
Homemade fire starter bundle (hemp dipped in paraffin wax and Vaseline)
Homemade first aid kit based on multiple sites for DIY kits
Marmot PreCip jacket
Good
Alpinestars hoodie for warmth
Cotton? Sounds heavy and under performing.
Older Garmin hiking gps
Fun but prob not needed.

I eventually want to purchase the following items:
A better tent
Six Moon Designs Skyscape – whichever model fits your budget.

Thanks for your feedback! I did a bit of weight shedding before my trip, which I failed to mention above.

I removed –
Surefire light
Alpinestars hoodie
Garmin gps

I substituted –
just the Black Diamond headlamp
light thermal top to wear under Marmot jacket
Suunto compass

I also realized that I posted the wrong model knife, I actually have a S&W Extreme Ops knife, which is a folding knife and weighs 3.9oz.

I don't quite understand what you mean by the comments about my footwear. What did you mean exactly?
Here's a link for the Merrell's I have –

http://www.merrell.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/16674M/33906/Mens/Moab-Mid-GORE-TEX-Wide-Width

Thanks again for all of the feedback!

Sorry I just fixed my earlier post there….I didn't realize I messed up the bold tags and made it all bold.

Regarding the footwear, boots aren't that popular in lightweight hiking. Traditional hikers commonly cite 'ankle support' as the reason why it's reckless to head into the woods with anything less that boots, but the majority of lightweight hikers are out there in some sort of a shoe – usually a trail runner. Weight saved on your feet makes a big difference (ie. 'a pound saved on the feet is worth 5 on the back') and using boots will slow you down and wear you out more. With a light load, boots are not needed unless you suffer from ankle problems. IMO, a better strategy is to hike in shoes and your ankles will grow stronger over time instead of getting weaker from non-use.

Gore-tex is also not that popular in these circles. For one, your feet tend to get damp in waterproof/breathable shoes because you feet generate more moisture than the shoe can breathe. Non-waterproof shoes are going to keep your feet drier and more comfortable when the weather is nice. When the weather isn't nice, gore-tex can be nice at first but water has an uncanny way of always finding it's way in. You might get a soaker or it might just slowly run down your pants over the course of the days hike or wick it's way down your socks. If none of those, your feet will still get damp/somewhat wet because your shoes don't do any breathing at all when it's wet out because the outer fabrics are soaked and the ambient humidity is 100% so there's no potential for the fabric to breath.

There are some shoulder season conditions where waterproof footwear may be a good option, but for most hikes you're better off with a breathable shoe that keeps your feet dry when it's nice out and when it's wet at least the water can drain out and the shoe will return to being dry much sooner. Gore-tex footwear is tough to dry out. You need hours around the campfire and half the time they wind up burnt.

Thanks for breaking it down, I finally understand! I'm definitely a novice to all of this. I bought the Merrell's per the advice of a few people at Bass Pro Shops, and have been happy with them so far. I'll definitely have to check out lightweight trail running shoes later on.

Looks like you have servicable gear that will be more than adequate for backpacking, and really that setup could be satisfactory for 20 years of use.

But if you want to lighten the load, you might think of:

ditch the nalgene and camalback, and use cheap pastic bottles of the bottled water/pop/gatoraid type

I'd look at tarptent.com for a tent that weighs less then 2 lbs.

Keen hiking shoes or boots

Alcohol stove and small pot (I'm a Caldera Cone fan)

plastic spoon, ditch the coughlan set

your Katadyn filter is a workhorse, and sturdy and durable. Aqua Mira is lighter, but your filter works fine.

I put a post on my blog about gear for new hikers, and its at

http://backpackingtechnology.com/backpacking/gear-shopping-advice-for-folks-adults-new-to-backpacking/

or just http://backpackingtechnology.com

as you have already seen, the Surefire is not needed.

Check out a small lockback knife, a swiss army classic, or a Mora knife is very practical at 2 oz

Ditch the hoodie. I have a down coat for warmth, and its lighter than a fleece pullover.

For a lot of trips you could leave the GPS at home.

For the areas I hike, a fleece hat is appreciated at night, plus light fleece gloves, and a baseball type hat. For longer trips I take a waterproof stuff sac to wash clothes in.

A Neoair is very light while providing a good thickness for a pad, but it is pricey.

I use a long sleeve nylon shirt, and one or 2 nylon t shirts.

…

Hi Jeremy,

One thing I would recommend if you have never done this before. Go to a serious running shoe store or hiking/mountaineering shop. Not a big box like Bass Pro, REI etc. You will pay more in a specialty shop than big boxes, but the person helping you will probably have much more extensive knowledge and experience both in fitting footwear properly and in the performance aspects of the shoes they carry. The one giant essential to backpacking, no matter the locale or season, is properly fitted shoes/boots and good socks.

On that note, I didn't see mention of socks on your list; good socks aren't cheap, but they're worth the money IMO.

I would suggest replacing the water filter with the sawyer squeeze. You'll end up saving around 8oz probably as well as save some time. With the squeeze you won't have to stop and filter your water all at once, but can just squeeze it through the filter as you need it making your hiking more efficient. At $50 it isn't too expensive either.

You could also make the cat food can alcohol stove if you are just boiling water. Directions can be found on andrew skurka's website or with just a quick youtube search. Mine weighs in under 0.5oz and cost around $1 to make if you already have a hole punch.

As for the firearm, I'm guessing you carry a revolver because you said its .357 magnum. I am no expert on guns and would personally just go without, but you could consider something smaller like a kel tec pf9. 12.7 oz unloaded according to their website.

Honestly if you want my advice then do yourself a favor and return just about everything and do more research before you buy.

You will save money, time, and weight by buying the right gear the first time around.

"a few people at Bass Pro Shops"

Good Grief! This explains a few things.

People at Bass Pro probably know a few things about fishing, but they are not known for ultralightweight backpacking gear.

–B.G.–

Hi Jeremy,

Nothing wrong with using inexpensive gear when you're starting out. You've done one short backpacking trip, so you really don't have alot of experience with gear and techniques. As you take more frequent and more challenging trips, you will start to develop a "feel" for your hiking style; this increased awareness of your needs and wants as regards gear will allow you to critically assess potential purchases for their applicability to your particular performance criteria. Right now, since you don't know alot, you might just be flushing money down the drain by purchasing expensive gear that may or may not work for you.

If, on your first trip, you were warm, dry, and well-fed, then you're on the right track. Get out there and have fun with what you've got! It's not a competition, and gear isn't that important anyway. It's all about skill and experience, and having fun! 25 years from now you might not even remember the gear you're using now, but I guarantee you'll remember the places you go and things you see!

Think of the stuff you use for lightweight backpacking more of a system rather than a bunch of gear in a bag. Good systems are lightweight, efficient, comfortable, and durable. Look for dual use items. Also, try to keep an open mind about everything you buy/make. As you use the gear, you'll soon figure out how you want your system to work, and you may have to get new gear–so don't get your heart set on a particular piece of gear.

Also, in regards to boots: I copied this from a recent post here by Jennifer Mitol:

"It turns out that taller, stiffer boots actually transfer a great deal of unwanted forces to both the hip and the knee. Under normal conditions the very mobile foot and ankle compensate for uneven surfaces, as well as flexing your leg over your foot during walking (called dorsiflexion). If you wear higher boots you limit your ability to dorsiflex, thus tranferring all that force through the knee and the hip. So…in a "normal" condition, the higher boot actually causes more trouble than it helps. If, however (there are tons of ifs in orthopedics), you do have some underlying condition anywhere along the kinetic chain (back, hip, knee, ankle, foot) then you may need something different. But no one can tell you that through a forum."

"but you could consider something smaller like a kel tec pf9. 12.7 oz unloaded according to their website"

I think I'd stay away from that one. I know someone who tried one and he reports –

"Speaking of the PF9, it was the 2nd worst recoil I've experienced. The absolute worst was a Taurus 605SS with the 2-finger grip in 357. That one actually ripped the skin in the web of my hand – made me bleed really good. I still have a scar there — it took a long time to heal. 3rd worst – Ruger's LCP in .380….
You ever ding a baseball on a swing near the center of the bat, rather than out at the sweet spot? That bad vibration you get that stings and makes you nearly drop the bat? Yeah, that was the PF-9 for me."

At least so far as firearms are concerned, you can indeed get to light – for a given caliber, anyway.

I used to own a little two shot Davis derringer in 9mm ( same as the PF-9 ) and I was simply amazed at how painful it was to shoot that thing. I had been shooting a Browning High-Power clone and thought the 9×19 caliber a real pussycat, and got the Davis as a same-caliber back up. Boy, that didn't work out.

My lightest firearm is a Kel-Tec P32, which weighs 9.8 ounces loaded with eight Winchester Silver tips.

Anyway, for a good gun-nut discussion of backpacking guns, for anyone who might be interested –

http://grizzleman.com/topic/38-backpacking-and-guns/

So why is everyone so dead set against the humble Nalgene bottle?

"Nalgene 1L bottle
Too heavy. Use disposable water bottle to save nearly 0.5 lbs"

Dude, get a grip!

My wide mouth Nalgene HDPE bottles weigh four ounces each. My narrow mouth HDPE bottles are 3.7 ounces.
A Power Aid bottle is 1.7 or 1.8 ounces on my scale. The difference is as low as 1.9 ounces, hardly half a pound!

Back in the day I used to carry one wide and one narrow mouth Nalgene, plus a G.I. two quart canteen minus the cover ( six ounces ) for extra capacity for dry overnight camps and long dry spells.
Yeah, that was 13.7 ounces for a gallon capacity, and these days I do use two Power Aid or similar bottles, and a one liter Platypus flask for a total of three quart capacity at about 4.4 ounces, ( I actually hate the flaccid floppy platypus things ) but it really isn’t a big fat hairy deal. I saved more than half a pound in my example, ( and carry less water ) but Jeremys one Nalgene isn't a big deal.

A nice thing about the Nalgene bottles is I get about ten solid years of use out of one. I don’t buy sports drinks or water, so buying those lighter bottles is a special purchase and I’d hate to think of all the land-fill bait that would accumulate with ten years of using such bottles, and heck, the Nalgene make great hot water bottles!

But I guess some of the fancy Nalgene bottles do weigh more than the HDPE type? Never used ‘em myself.

Jeremy –
Looking at your list I’m still not sure why your pack was quite so heavy, a 25 pound base load is a bit much. But hey, I am not criticizing you at all, I’m very glad you had fun and I hope you keep on backpacking!

>So why is everyone so dead set against the humble Nalgene bottle?

Its heavy. My hard Nalgene weighs 6.25 ounces. Yes, the HDPE ones weigh less.

A 1L water bottle, like the Nestle ones with small cap weighs 0.75 ounces.

That's a big difference for a water bottle, even with the HDPE nalgene.

Yarg, a .75 ounce water bottle is light! Lighter than the Platypus, and I though those were as good as it got. But how many would you go through in ten years of backpacking? I guess it doesn't matter to much if you recycle, but I still have a concern about disposable gear.

Actually, they're quite durable! Depending how careful you were and how much you used them, you could get at least a few years out of them.

And if you didn't want to buy them, you could tell friends and family to give you the ones they buy.