The absolutely lightest kitchen?

We are pushing the definition of "stove" here, but since you asked, it could be the Firelite titanium folding wing stove (13g), a scrap of aluminum foil as a windscreen (5g), and an esbit tab or two per meal. Problem is your pot is so narrow, can you get a boil from esbit tabs? I tried and can't.

Valentin… I think my “stove” design is pretty darn light. 48 grams for a pot (beer can) with a proper lid (not foil), handle, stand, windscreen and esbit burner cup.

Check it out if you’re interested…

Dave’s 48 gram kitchen

Brett… I always get a boil with a tab and a beer can pot. I have never not gotten a boil. What kind of pot are you using?

David: I know your website and it's good, thank you. I already thought about building something similar for me. I'd leave the handle and use foil as a lid. Could I use the sleeping pad as a windscreen?

So I'm better (=lighter) of using Esbit instead of alcohol?

Thank you all for your help!

Hey Valentin,

Esbit vs. Alcohol is one of those nearly religious type debates. Personally… I never liked alcohol. I didn’t like the fuss of dealing with a fuel bottle and filling the stove and spilling alcohol around the site and almost burning my face off accidently and having it flame out all the time before I got a boil… etc. But others swear by it. I love Esbit because it’s super light, super convenient, super hot (much hotter than alcohol) and completely foolproof. It depends tho’. Read these two articles for some objective data:

Stoveweight vs Time Over 14 Days
Stoveweight vs Time Over 28 Days

As for the windscreen… your mattress will not work. A windscreen needs to be relatively tight fitting. It not only keeps out the wind… it also serves to funnel heat up around the pot. The small BPL Ti foil windscreens… cut to length for a beer can… will only weigh 3 grams or so. I would consider the amount of benefit you are getting from those 3 grams!!! It’s not all about weight… it’s about effeciency. You want to get the must use / function per gram… and those 3 grams are worth a lot.

You could leave the handle and use your gloves or something to pick up the can.

Foil lid will not be much lighter than my “bottom of a cat food can” lid. Those 5.5 oz cans are made from thin aluminum. It’s only 3 grams. Those 3 grams are worth it for me because it allows me to store things neatly inside the pot and not worry about them falling out. I put the windscreen, stand, burner cup, etc all inside the pot along with my water treatment chemicals and mixing cap… put the lid on… then hold it on with an elastic band. Works beautifully! I keep the can in an outside pack pocket (or at the top of the extension collar… depending on the pack) so it is always handly for gathering water or cooking on trail. The way I designed all the peices… they all fit together for stowing as one neat package inside the pot. Look at the video on my site to see what I mean. A tin foil lid might be 1 gram.

Where my stove really falls down I think… weight wise… is the stand. 7 grams is too much for what that thing is… just a tiny ring of welded wire. If only they made titanium welded wire mesh!!!!!!!!!! That would be awesome.

Oh… one last idea… you can use rubber thimbles (from any office supply place) for pot grabbers… instead of the handle. I still prefer my handle tho’. 3 rubber thimbles weigh about 4 grams.

David,
Still accumulating the supplies to make your set-up. Pretty much just waiting on the can (KY has very silly laws about alcohol and those big kegs are hard to find) and ti windscreen, both of which are on the way.

Anyway, I'm just wondering how durable you find the pot to be. Do you think it could make it through a thru-hike? A whole summer worth of weekend trips?

Thanks.

Here is the lightest I've been able to come up with (please note the weight specified is not including the small plastic carrying case for the stove–this is optional):

http://www.freewebs.com/jasonklass/subthreeouncesystem.htm

“If only they made titanium welded wire mesh!!!!!!!!!! That would be awesome.”

titanium welded wire mesh

But you will probably have to buy a 1000 square meter ‘roll’? Might be best for BPL to buy it, cut it up and sell squares at the gear shop.

Hey Miles,

I would say… maybe not. The Heniken is much stronger than a Fosters since it's barrel shaped… but it still not super strong. It's thin aluminum. Actually… I would say yes but the thing is… over the course of a thru hike you're bound to accidently drop it or sit on it at some point. I accidently "sat" on one once on an overnight hike. I forgot which pocket it was in in my back and I sat down and leaned into my pack (like a backrest) and crushed it a bit. It still held water… it was just a little bent up.

So I guess it would last if you never had any accidents with it and if you were careful… but if your thru hike is in a location where they sell this kind of beer… I would just say… keep a side cut can opener in your drift box and anytime you need a new can… just go to the beer store at the next trail town.

Glad to know that someone it making my stove!!!! Very cool :) Of course… there is not much involved in making it… but still… it took me a long time to come up with all of the little bits and peices and figure out how to fit it all together. The hardest thing to make (which isn't that hard) is the handle. I should warn you… if you make it from a Ti rod… it will be a bit wobbly with a full load of water… but I've never had it fail… and it does work. My first version used coat hanger wire… and it was rock solid… but heavy… and rust-prone. As an alternative… you could just use a glove or some rubber thimbles.

I agree that the LIGHTEST stove is the Firelite Ti wing stove for ESBIT tabs. I carry it as an emergency stove & as a backup for my canister stove if I miscalculate how many canisters to bring.

FORGET THE SCRIPT BELOW: I now have a Caldera Cone ti Sidewinder stove. In ESBIT mode I use the outer cone, a tiny ESBIT tab holder called a Gram Cracker and a small 2" X 2" aluminum base sheet. My Sidewinder was ordered to fit Trail Designs' 3 cup aluminum pot (hard anodized). Not the lightest ESBIT stove but certainly the most efficient. I now use 1/3 less fuel than with the setup described below due to the Cone's efficiency. Now THERE'S some weight savings for you, less fuel to carry.

BUT, I also own the Vargo Outdoors Triad XE titanium stove.
It's a "multifuel" stove in that it can burn both alcohol and ESBIT fuel tabs. In fact it can burn TWO ESBIT tabs side by side if you need more heat in a hurry.
It weighs 1.5 oz. That's right, 1.5 oz.
It costs $32. and is very well made. The alcohol burner has a removable lid for easy filling and a nice, efficient flame pattern. That's the stove I'd recommend to you. Personally I favor ESBIT tabs over alcohol for many reasons. Their only drawback is a brown film they leave in the bottom of a pot, which, BTW, is easily wiped off.

HOWSOMEVER, as was previously pointed out, your beer can is inefficient (too much heat goes up the sides). You need a wider pot. Bite the bullet and get a 1 liter aluminum pot and lid.
Otherwise, if you stick to your old beer can you'll have to carry more fuel to make up for its inefficiency. This is simple physics and we all had to come to terms with it.

Oh yeah, windscreen. I almost forgot.
I got an MSR windscreen kit B/C it was convenient. It has an aluminum reflector disc too. I use the disc under my Wing or Triad XE stove. I punched 1/4" holes about 1 1/2" apart around the bottom of my windscreen for better updraft.
You can, for less money, get a long disposable aluminum baking pan & make a windscreen from it as well. Don't forget the reflector disc. It's a fire safety item also.

Eric… you may be right about efficiency but I have never had any problem getting a quick boil with my beercan and you can't beat 48 grams for an entire kitchen setup including pot, lid, handle, stand, windscreen and "burner". I used to use a traditional pot with alcohol and I would almost never get a boil. Tiny bubbes if I was lucky. 1.5 oz… just for the burner… to me… is really heavy. Not saying it's not a great burner for those using traditional pots… but for me… I will never go back to a traditional pot for my trips. Also… a lot depends on the length of your trip. Also… since Esbit can't really be portioned in any way other than trying to cut it in half… I always just use 1 tab per boil anyway. I always get a boil before the whole tab is gone… but I highly doubt that using a traditional pot would allow me to get a boil with half a tab. And even if it did… a tab only weighs a few grams. Again… over the long haul… it may not make sense… but most of my trips are 3-4 days. My setup is significantly lighter than a vargo triad + regular pot for those kinds of trips.

Thanks for idea! I shall make the same furnace.

Well in order to achieve the lightest weight possible you should try to use stuff you're already carrying.

You specifically ask for the lightest STOVE. I think the tea light stove either with alcohol or Esbit is the lightest stove you can find. Than use three or four pegs as support for your Heineken pot. All you need more is a windscreen.

Eins

Thank y'all for your postings!

Einstein X: Do you mean those tea lights from the supermarket w/aluminium covering? Is that enough to hold an Esbit tab? Sounds like a great idea, gotta try that. And they are available in Europe, other than those Heineken cans I received from the US recently…

Well Valentin, it's not my own idea:

http://zenstoves.net/TeaLight.htm

How did you get your Heineken cans? I can get some sent to me but $20 is a bit much i think.

Eins

Einstein
You know what they say….'It's new to me'
I get such a kick out of web pages like this. Some ideas are great and some are not so great, but that's all perspective I should think. It's the thoughts and then the implementation. Just great stuff!!

David,
Thanks for the durability info. Now that I have the keg in my hand, it's actually a lot more durable than I thought it would be. I see what you mean about hurting it during a "whoopsie," but otherwise I think it'll hold up great. I'm excited!

I've got the Heine keg and the ti rod here, the ti foil is on the way, and I'm going to get everything else together tomorrow. The only thing I can't decide on is whether or not to put the hole in the esbit holder. I know it makes the whole setup a lot easier to keep together, but it would be nice to be able to flip it over, throw some fiberglass insulation in there, and be able to use alcohol.

Anyway, I'm getting close! I can already tell that I'm going to love this kitchen.

P.S. – The video on the page isn't working for me.

Uhm, probably a dumb question, but what's a 'keg'???

Eins

A keg is a barrel-shaped metal container (i.e not straight sided… but bulging sides for strength)… usually really big and full of beer. It's what the taps in bars are hooked up to. The Henieken beer can is not really a keg since it's just a small single-serving thin aluminum can… but it is keg shaped.

Try the video now Miles… I changed the way it was emedded in the page in order to deal with Explorer's lack of standards compliance. Hopefully works now. I'm on a Mac so I can't test it. The video will show you how nicely it all packs up… but you do need the little hole to make that work.

As for hole or no hole… drink cans are cheap :) Make one with the hole… see how you like it… one without. You'd need higher sides to hold alcohol tho'. My esbit cup is maybe 3/8" high. But you could experiment with different burners. Any alcohol stove made from a small energy drink can will fit inside the hardware cloth ring. The MoGo firefly comes to mind. You'd need a higher ring too tho' since that stove is a good 1" high.

I was also thinking… it's not 200% ideal… but you could make a ring that has a "bottom" to hold the burner for stowing (without the little hole). You'd just leave some "tangs" on the bottom of the ring and bend them in towards the center of the ring. So you'd clip the stand and handle together with the bobby pin and then roll up the windscreen and set it inside the ring and then nest the burner inside of that. They would rest on the "shelf" created by the bend in tangs. The disadvantage is that the parts are not secured together… the burner and windscreen are just resting there. But that might be fine.

I don't know how that would work tho'. The trick to the way my stowing works is the way the tightly rolled windscreen goes THRU the handle… holding the handle in place… so it doesn't flop around. Again… the video will make this really clear. Please try the page again and see if it works. I show myself taking the set up stove appart and stowing the bits inside.

David,
How dare you insinuate that I'm on Windows using IE? ;) I'm on a mac using Firefox/Safari, and the video still doesn't work for me. However, I was able to download it with the UnPlug addon for Firefox, so all is well.

I'm just going to stick to your original design for now, but I'll definitely think of adding my own touch in the future. The lid with holder, handle, and esbit holder are done. The ti foil is still on the way, and so is some non-galvinized stainless steel hardware cloth. You'd think they'd have that stuff in a huge store like Lowe's, but they don't. In fact, they looked at me like I was asking for something that doesn't even exist. And, of course, I received a very vacant stare when I mentioned that I needed it to make a backpacking stove… Anyway, thanks for the advice, as always!

Very odd Miles… I'm on Mac OS X 10.4.8 and the video works in all the browers I have tried… Safari… Firefox… Opera… Camino… you name it. I know that IE often has problems with video because it doesn't support the object tag… but the embed method I'm using now should work with all browsers. Do you have the latest Quicktime?

Yep, I'm on 10.4.8 on a MacBook, running Quicktime 7.1.3, which I think is the most recent, and I've tried Firefox, Camino, Safari, even IE running in CrossOver, even though it hurt me to do it. My school has some very odd packet-shaping/firewall stuff sometimes, so maybe that has something to do with it?

Einstein X: Thank you, I've just checked out the website. Think I'm gonna try that.

A BPL Member sent two Heineken cans to me, if he reads this: Thank you very much!!! I paid 20 US$ for shipping, the cans and some Reese's Peanut Butter Cups… Shipping time was 6 days overall.

where did you find the non-galvinized stainless steel hardware cloth? thanks