Hilleberg Tent thread

[Ryan ALLISON]

I decide to go with NAMMATJ 3 (non GT) for the extra vent, a little more headroom, etc.

[Stuart .]

Ryan – The Nammatj is a significant step up from the Nallo, one that not many on BPL are willing to make due to the extra oz. I think you made a sound long term decision. It's truly 4 season worthy, offers better ventilation and bug protection, and has more headroom inside. But it is a leap that most first-time Hillie buyers aren't willing to make due to price, weight or other spec reasons. I've tried many different Hillie models the last four years, and this year came to the conclusion that the Black Series tents were the ones to own for the long term. I upgraded from a Kaitum 3 to a Keron 3 for 3P, and I sold my Nammatj 2 in favour of the Nammatj 2GT for 2P + pulk. Hilleberg's range is huge, and many models overlap so the decision is hard. You have chosen a supremely comfortable winter shelter for 2P + one oversized pooch.

[Ryan ALLISON]

The vender has yet to refund/credit me for the Nallo 2… which has left me here at my home over-analyzing shelters (story of my life). I like the idea of the Nammatj 3 for 2P and a dog. I just keep seeing that Unna… and she looks so sexy to me. She just glances my way and I get weak in the knees. Everything about it seems to make sense to me. I have a feeling it would get way more use year-round, because the reality is, it's just me and my dog. I'm not sure what the hell I'll end up with. It will either be an Nammatj or an Unna.

[Stuart .]

IMO, Hillie's 1P models are really heavy vs the competitors. Although I have yet to see an Unna in the flesh, so I'm talking based on experience with the Akto and Soulo. I understand your dilemma, but I think the Unna is small for you and your pooch. If it's 1P + big dog, for winter use only, then the Nammatj 2 is brilliant, with pooch inside. If it's three season use then look at the Anjan 3GT – you and your ladyfriend inside, and your four-legged friend has the whole GT vestibule…

[Ryan ALLISON]

"seeing in the flesh"… this is the problem with all the gear I like. There's no place to go and see it before you buy. It's mostly purchasing online using educated guesses. It would save me a lot of headache if I could just see everything in person.

At any rate… I like your thinking here, Stuart. I have a week to think about it as I'm about to head home for the holidays, but I'm hoping the week that follows that I'll be on my first winter backpacking trip one of these tents.

[peter vacco]

i have owned both akto and unna.
the unna was too big for just one man. it is like a palace, and the poles, in practice, are Very long.
being that large, it is warm and comfortable in the rain, but it is sort of distressing that comes out the sun, you'll be needing to carry it. over-big that my unna was, after i installed a window in it, absolutely top-of-the-hill as far as outdoor accommodation.
for the weight of an unna, and if weather is not a major issue, you can find larger tents for less money.

i have no complaints about my unna, only it was too big (for me), and because of that, it weighed a bit more than i cared for.

good luck,
v.

[J P]

Ryan–I am having the same difficulty–trying to decide on a Hilleberg without having the opportunity to see all of the options in front of me as there is no AD within driving distance of me. I liked the Jannu for its relatively low weight in the Hilleberg line but after ordering one and setting it up, I think it is a little tight for two people with 6'6"winter bags. I liked the Staika for its size, but not sure I want to deal with the weight. And so it goes.

Stuart–I was thinking of ordering a Kaitum 3 this week, as it seems a pretty fair trade off between weight and usable space, and saw your comment above that you upgraded to a Keron 3 for long-term durability reasons. Were there any other reasons?

[Stuart .]

Having Neptune Mountaineering in my back yard has helped give me a sense of some of the models before buying, but I've learned what works and what doesn't through trial and error out in the backcountry. Personally, I've come to the realization that for two or more people the tunnel tents make more sense than the freestanding / self supporting models, although the Jannu does look like a cracking basecamp shelter for one.

I never thought I'd sell my Nammatj 2, but I found the vestibule tight for two with all our winter gear and when I saw the GT version I was sold. It's 1.5lb heavier and almost 3' longer than the non-GT, but I'll be using it exclusively on snow and hauling it in my pulk, so weight and dimensions are less of a concern.

James, for two people the Kaitum 3 is a palace. For three, however, I felt it was too much of a compromise. I bought it with three in mind. The dimensions shown on the website and in the catalogue make it appear to have the most interior space of all the 3P tents, but in reality the floor tapers significantly from the centre to the doors. Compared with the Keron 3, it's 9" wider in the middle (73" vs 64"), but it's actually 4" narrower at the doors (60" vs 64"). I found the inner tent would drape over the sleeping bags of the two folks on the outside. The extra width and height of the Keron 3 at the doors makes for easier entry/exit, and it provides slightly larger vestibules. Finally, the thicker poles give me the added confidence that it'll withstand whatever mother nature throws at it. The wind can be mental in the Rockies during winter storms. Split among three, the added weight over the Kaitum is reasonable.

These are personal reflections, and I know that others have been perfectly comfortable with three in the Kaitum 3.

Kaitum 3 inner:

Keron 3 inner:

[J P]

Stuart–thank you for the additional insight, and particularly for the photos! That was very helpful! It sounds like the longer Hilleberg tunnels have performed well for you in the mountains, which was a concern for me–finding a large enough site and their ability to handle winds from varying directions. Sounds like I have a little more research to do.

[Stuart .]

Keron 4:

Nammatj 3 with two LW pads:

Nammatj 3 with one LW pad and two short pads:

Nammatj 2 (sorry, can't find one with pads inside):

And lastly, the Nammatj 2 and Nammatj 3 exteriors compared, showing the extra width and height on the 3P version:

[victor larivee]

I am considering the Nammatj 3 but I am concerned with my sleeping bag pressing against the inner tent at the end.

I called Hilleberg and they stated that the section between the poles is 45" long, that leaves 42" from the second pole to the end of the tent, slanted roof. With my calculation at 78" (length of my sleeping pad) there is only about 9" from the floor to the ceiling. If this is true not only will my bag be touching but my feet will definitely be pushing against the inner tent. I'm I missing something?

[Stephen M]

Stuarts the guy to answer that Victor.

[Stuart .]

Victor – Can you provide some more information? You've said your pad is 78" long, so I assume it's a LW Exped or similar, 2.5" thick. How tall are you, and what's the length and temperature rating or loft of the sleeping bag? How many will you be using the Nammatj 3 with?

I'm 5'9", and I own a Nammatj 2GT, which is 4" shorter (inner tent height) than the Nammatj 3, so the angle is slightly more acute on mine. I use the LW Exped. My shoulder season bag is a 6' WM Alpinlite which does not touch the sloping roof at the foot of the inner tent even when my head is 6" from the door. My winter bag is a 6'6" WM Kodiak. It does just touch the inner tent, but I can't say I've ever noticed my size 11 feet being anywhere close. I follow Hilleberg's recommendation and put my WP/B jacket over the foot of my sleeping bag to prevent condensation transfer.

If you're using the Nammatj 3 for 2P, you can angle the sleeping pads to get you a little more usable length. If you're looking at 3P usage, I would strongly suggest considering the Keron 3 with its vertical doors on both ends.

[J P]

Stuart–in your experience, is the ventilation in the Nammatj GT models as effective as the non-GT models?

[victor larivee]

Stuart,
thanks for the info. I'm 6' tall, will be using an exped LW 2.5" and a marmot pinnacle sleeping (15deg regular)bag (similar set up for the second person). Will probably be using it mostly for 2p but i want to make sure 3 could fit for an over nighter. Living in the white mountains alot of times the tent will be pitched on a wood platform. I have been studing hilleberg tents and like the nammatj for its overall shorter length and big door. Sounds like my consern with the slanted roof might not be warranted.

[Stuart .]

James – I really like the possibilities with the GT vestibule which I why I swapped out my Nammatj 2 (which I thought I'd never part with) for the 2GT. Aside from the obvious additional weight, the potential downsides are the additional ~3' to the length of the shelter, which may make it a bit more challenging to pitch outside winter, and condensation build-up under that big vestibule. I don't consider the latter to be a function of ventilation, rather that you have a 30sqft or 26sqft floorless section (Nammatj 3GT vs 2GT) under an outer tent that truly pitches down to the ground. Tony Hobbs' recent video of his Nammatj 3GT made me chuckle – here was an avowed Trailstar user who, on his first night out under a tent in 3 years, zipped up his outer tent tight and was surprised how steamy the interior was in the morning.

Pitch the foot end into the wind, leave the vents open whenever possible, and in high humidity situations (like rapid freeze/melt cycles in spring) cover as much of the vestibule floor as you can with a groundsheet. If conditions permit, zip the GT's outer door down from the top, leaving a ~1' threshold of Kerlon 1800 to block spindrift while allowing maximum ventilation.

[Stuart .]

Victor – At 6' with a 15F regular length bag I don't see you having any problems in 2P mode under the Nammatj 3. I was really lucky to be able to compare the Nammatj 3, Nammatj 2GT and Keron 3/4 models this fall, and hopefully the pic posted above of the Nammatj 3 with two LW pads will give you an indication of how much space you'll have width-wise.

For occasional 3P use, you'll get by. It's going to be cozy, as the foot end tapers down from 64" to something like 57 or 58". Three standard width rectangular pads will overlap, but three medium XTherm/XLite pads might just fit side by side.

I had quite a few conversations with Shannon and Stuart at Hilleberg over the last few months, and they were great to work with. My namesake nailed it when he said that – for maximum comfort on extended winter trips – go to the next size up (eg Keron 4 for 3P, Nammatj 3 for 2P); but for shorter duration and three season trips the actual person rating should be reasonable.

On a wooden platform the shorter length of the Nammatj over the Keron will be much easier to fit (~11' vs 14').

[Jeff Jeff]

I am also looking at the Nammataj for a tent for use above treeline in the PNW. Any thoughts between the Nammataj 3 and the Nammataj 2 GT for 2 people? Would the 2 person be too tight if I'm waiting out a storm? Is the vestibule on the non-GT version big enough for two pairs of ski boots and a stove?

[Stuart .]

Jeff – The tradeoff is going to be whether you want more space in the inner tent, or a more versatile vestibule.

I'm fine with the space available for two adults in the Nammatj 2. It's thermally efficient but not cramped. However I found the regular vestibule was tight with winter gear as there really wasn't space to bring much into the inner tent. I felt like I was climbing over packs to get in and out. The GT vestibule offers ~50% more living space plus gear storage, and the entryway keeps the inner tent much more protected from the elements.

However the Nammatj 3 is 14oz lighter than the 2GT. It has the added height and width that makes the inner tent more liveable and it's easier to get in and out with gear on one side of the vestibule. Yes, you could absolutely keep two pairs of ski boots and a stove in its vestibule. If you don't need the GT, then the 3P non-GT is a more practical choice.

Regardless of choice, be aware that Hilleberg put their prices up ~10% every January. You've got about two weeks before the products become that much more expensive.

[Stephen M]

Afternoon folks,

Off work for the Xmas holidays so decided to pitch my Unna and
Anjan 2 in the basement.

My main intention was to figure out what
to do with my pack and boots when using the Unna, but decided to pitch the Anjan also.

By pulling out the bottom door peg point a bit I can get my boots and pack in to the area
between the inner and out, my pack inside
an Exped Snozzle but may use a trash bag instead.

I purchased the Anjan 2 for solo use as
I really like the Anjan 3GT my wife and I use.

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[Jeff Jeff]

Stuart, thanks for the info. In the winter, I mostly carry clothing and climbing gear which stays in the tent. Minus the sharp stuff which stays outside. I like the weight savings of the 3 vs the 2 GT. I think a 2 would be too small for all my stuff based on your photos.

How does it do when being hit on the side by really strong winds? I had a rough night on Rainier where we had 40mph wind with 60mph gusts coming from the side. I was in an REI rental tent that handled it VERY well but it had 4 poles that crossed which is about as strong as you can get. Also too heavy, hence my shopping for a Hilleberg : )

[Stephen M]

Jeff,

If your considering the Nammatj 3 GT for 2 people then the
Tarra is worth looking at also as its a true 2 person shelter with dual vestibules, also it is only 7oz more than the Nammatj 3 GT.

[Jeff Jeff]

No, the GT models are heavier than I want. I guess a 2 GT would work, but a 3 is lighter.

[Stephen M]

Sounds like should go with the 3 so.

[Stuart .]

Jeff –

Tunnel tents are designed to deform under heavy winds, which can cause the inner tent to move in a way you're not used to under a 4 season dome tent. But that's a major factor in making them suitable for raging storms in the arctic and antarctic – the give means that the poles and the fabric aren't pushed to their breaking point anywhere near as quickly as a dome tends to be. This can be mitigated through site selection and pointing the tail end of the tent into the prevailing wind (which probably shift as much in PNW as they do in the Rockies), by digging down into the snow to lower the profile of the tent, adding extra guylines, and by using a second set of poles in the worst conditions. Take a look at the following two videos to get a sense of what's within tolerance. As you'll see, Hilleberg test their Black Label / Kerlon 1800 tunnel tents to handle 60mph side winds without the extra precautions mentioned above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBwDOBSBnlA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eFAyKMz314

If wind tolerance is a priority, I'd suggest the lower profile of the Nammatj 2GT rather than the taller Nammatj 3. The 2GT also has the advantage of a third pole. In his series on tunnel tent design, Roger Caffin indicated that number of poles hits the sweet spot for maximum strength. Both of the Hillies I now use are three pole tunnel designs, and that's based on a lot of trial and error.

The tunnel tents are intended mostly for trips where the camp is moved every night. For a basecamp left unattended during the day, I'd second the Tarra that Stephen recommended, or the Jannu if you're willing to get cozy with your tentmate. They have stronger static snowload abilities, but they are heavier than the equivalent domes. The Tarra, which Doug Smith kicked off this 16 page thread with, is Hilleberg's strongest 2P shelter, period. And it's quite a lot more spacious than the Nammatj 2. Check out the review on outdoorgearlab:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews/Hilleberg-Tarra

The Jannu reminds me of the MLD Trailstar in that it's really low to the ground, so it shrugs off wind – and yet it also handles snowloads unlike the aforementioned tarp. It gives up a lot of creature comforts, but punches above its weight given that it's a Red Label/ Kerlon 1200 tent. Outdoorgearlab also rate it highly:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews/Hilleberg-Jannu

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