Lightest 10 day stove

"Hypothetically, if I put an extra 0.6 or 1.4 ounces in your pack you wouldn't notice the difference."

True.

"If you saved 0.6/1.4 ounces here, and 0.6/1.4 ounces there, eventually it could make a difference."

Which is exactly how I go about things.

"Then there is the question of fuel economy"

"That could make more of a difference."

Yes, more so than just the stove, but the stove is only part of the difference, as per my previous post. Little things here and there do add up.

I find a half of an Esbit cube in a Caldera Cone with a squat pot will heat 2 cups of water nearly to boiling, but not to a rolling boil. This is enough for breakfast or dinner in most cases. 3/4 of a cube will bring 2 cups to a rolling boil.

So 1.0 to 1.5 cubes per day would meet the needs of the challenge. Fuel weight would be 5.0 to 7.5 ounces for 10 days. The weight of pot and Caldera Cone and gram cracker stove would be about 5 to 6 ounces depending on selection. It's possible to go even lighter than this.

So the range of possibilities would reasonably be 10.0 to 13.5 ounces for a complete 10 day Esbit/CC system with a half-liter of water heated at each of two meals.

All of this assumes you cannot or chose not to use a wood burner.

Ha ha…in the one link, the UK fellas refers to alcohol stoves as "Meth Stoves". They do seem light and useful, but the aging and paranoia they cause take such a toll. Have you seen the internet before and after photos of the ultralighters that use these? Faces of Meth Stoves, look it up.

I noted the crossover in both links ,where canister stoves become very weight efficient after several days, and that's without consideration of ease/speed to boil. I wasn't going to change, but it makes me feel smarter already.

Ten days is a little tricky, but here's how it works for me:

My canister setup is Snow Peak Giga (non Ti), plus MYOG windscreen and SP 600 mug w/ foil lid: 7.5 ounces. I figure 8 qt (or liters) boiled per small canister–8 days at a liter/day (generally my usage). Actually, since the first day is no breakfast, and last day is no dinner, this would be 9 hiking days. Total w/ full canister: 14.5 oz.

My similar alky setup is ~5.5 oz + fuel. (SP 600 mug + lid, windscreen, empty fuel bottle). At 1.5 oz alcohol/day, the crossover with canister is on day 6; at 2 oz/day, the crossover is between days 4 and 5.

The problem with 10 days is, if I can't stretch a small canister that far (using, say, some of the techniques Tom K. mentioned), I have to bring a larger canister, and the weight jumps past the alky stove again.

For trips 4-9 days, I'd take the canister stove. 1-3 days, alky. At maybe 10-13 days (-ish), the alky setup might have the edge again, but I'd be more inclined to stretch the canister by cooking a bit less. Could also take an alky stove and a few ounces of alcohol + the canister setup, which could be lighter overall than a larger canister.

I am now a Caldera Cone classic user (drinking coffee from the caddy), but I've been wondering about stepping down to a cat can (and burning lips on an evernew 600 pot?).

Have any of you made the transition one way or the other? I'm not sure about 10 days, but I'd think that on short trips the lighter weight would offset the reduced efficiency.

> The problem with 10 days is, if I can't stretch a small canister that far
Should be fairly easy to do. Cooking for two (my wife and me) for a fortnight takes one 450 g canister. That has been very thoroughly tested and proven. So cooking for one person for 10 days sghould be fine with one 230 g canister.
The Snow Peak Giga is a great stove, but you might want to look at a slightly wider pot for better efficiency.

Cheers

Fortnight?

What the …. is that?

Okay, I googled it and it's 14 days : )

Since I've made a smart alec remark – a small canister (4 ounces of isobutane) heats maybe 16 pints to a near boil – if I used it only to heat 1 cup for oatmeal, it would last 32 days, 1 cup otmeal + 1 pint coffee = 10 days,… – it depends on how much hot water you need per day

"but I'd be more inclined to stretch the canister by cooking a bit less."

+1

sp 600 2.8 oz, foil lid .07 oz
stand 0.22 oz
windscreen 0.45 oz
tealight – 0.05 oz
fuel container .75 oz .5L water bottle

.6 fl oz fuel per boil = 1.2×10=12 oz oz wt, but Id bring 10

so, total = 14.8 oz.

20 x 3 min boils is right at limit of 8oz cannister

12oz cannister + 1.7 oz stove+2.88=16.5 Use sleep pad for windscreen

alcohol still wins, barely, but more likely to accidentally run out. However its quieter, and I prefer that.

"…alcohol still wins, barely, but more likely to accidentally run out."

If you are willing to "overfill" and then recover the fuel, you very seldom run out, especially with only a 500ml boil.

I VERY much doubt an alky stove and fuel sufficient to bring 1 liter of water to boil two times a day for 10 days will be lighter than a small MSR canister and say, a Vargo Jet-Ti stove OR my Sidewinder stove W/ 20 ESBIT tabs (20 oz.)** using my efficient 3 cup wide pot & lid.

The canister fuel is hotter than alky and even ESBIT, and esp. Firelite tabs, are a bit hotter than alky.

**OOPS! those 20 ESBIT tabs weigh only 10 oz.

Half a liter, twice a day.

Edit: Removed Esbit weight versus 2 cup boil comment. Digging some more….

Edit2:
I've found a number of posts stating that a half tab will get you a 2 cup boil. Especially if using a Gram Cracker.

If so, then one tablet (0.5 ounce) per day will get it done.
That's 5 ounces for Esbit versus 8 ounces (weight) for ethanol.

Anyone care to confirm Esbit weights to get a 2 cup boil?

FWIW, there is a good table here on ten day weights, soto vs. jetboil vs reactor vs cat can vs esbit.

By his math, at 10 days alcohol and esbit are tied for the lead.

Wood fire wins, bring a little alcohol and a cat food stove for backup in case.

With an esbit, you technically don't need a stove. You could just set up your pot in between some rocks and have it burning underneath. A stove might channel the heat a bit better though.
Esbits also make great firestarters for wood fires.

Hi John,

I checked out that linked site in your post and found he used a Vargo stove base, just as I used to do (with a cut-down MSR windscreen).

BUT… using my 3-cup sized CC Sidewinder & ESBIT I find I absolutely can use 1/3 less fuel than with the Vargo stove base & windscreen setup. I've tested this many times on actual trips and that is my average fuel savings. I am still amazed at the Sidewinder's fuel savings. (However, I have one of, if not THE smallest Sidewinder stoves (for 3 cup pot) so that may account for better efficiency as well.)

Plus ESBIT or FireLite fuel tabs burn a bit hotter than the best alky. Less weight and hotter fire, and with the CC stoves, more concentrated heat.

I rest my case.

A couple months ago I calculated the weight-efficiency of my Esbit system (the usual 3-legged ti Esbit stove, foil windscreen, Ti or Heine cookpot) versus what seemed to be the most weight-efficient canister stove, Snow Peak LiteMax.
I boil about the same amount of water per day as you described.
I calculated for different trip lengths, different size canisters, and different levels of optimism for each setup.
I've never actually owned or used the LiteMax, so I was going purely on accounts I found on various online sources for liters of water that can be boiled per canister with this stove.

I do not have the energy or time to polish my calculations into a form suitable to post here, but my conclusion was that the Esbit would always beat the canister for weight.

At one point in my calculations it looked like the canister would be more efficient than Esbit at certain intervals. However, I then accounted for the fact that even when using a full canister, one is left with the weight of the canister itself. So, if the calculations are based on the weight at the start of the trip, it appears the canister is more efficient sometimes. But if looking at the weight carried each day, the extra weight of the canister on the last few days eats up its seeming advantage.

Keep in mind that this was something I did just for my own understanding, so I make no claims to absolute authority. Others will have to make their own calculations for their own particular setups.
And keep in mind that this is for the kind of cooking that requires only boiling water.

HOWEVER, if the trip entails boiling pretty close to exactly the amount of water that can be boiled by a full canister (a medium- or large- sized canister), the canister stove can come pretty darn close. So depending on the type of cooking I want to do, and the conditions and style of the trip, I concluded that for me the canister could sometimes be worth the weight difference.

Before I did all this, I went to my local MEC store with my digital scale and weighed all the full canisters I could find. You can look at http://www.mec.ca to see which canisters I mean.

MSR 227g fuel: whole full canister weighed 380g. (Canister alone = 153g)
MSR 115 = 246g (Can = 131g)

Primus 225 = 381g (Can = 156g)
Primus 450 = 668g (Can = 218g)

Snow Peak 220 = 377g (Can = 157g)

Optimus Energy 220 = 372g (Can = 152g)

Jetboil 230 = 382g (Can = 152g)
Jetboil 100 = 201g (Can = 101g)

Perhaps individual canister weights can vary by batch and sometimes my scale seems to read differently by a gram or two depending on what kind of surface it sits on, but this gives the general idea.

Thanks for the info, Eric. I had the Tri-Ti Sidewinder in mind when I chose my Evernew 600 pot (ECA251). I may go that way, but for short trips it may be overkill.

“What is the lightest fuel powered (alcohol, butane, esbit, etc.) stove setup for 10 days assuming 1/2 liter is boiled twice a day.”

Assume canister 3x more efficient than alcy. I made a spreadsheet for this. Here’s a snapshot:

and if we use Kirchner’s ‘boiling’ method the weights will be even lower however, alcy still wins again at 10 days.
And if we assume canister is 2x more efficient than alcy, alcy will always be lighter for infinite days.
However, esbit will always be the lightest. I just don’t like dealing with the esbit pot grime and its cost.

Good math problem :)

-Barry
-The mountains were made for Tevas