Apr 20, 2012 at 8:17 pm #1288977
This weekend I set out with my first homemade trail carb drink, modeled after Hammer Perpetuem powder. I calculate 80 kcal/mile needed.
Yield: 1 LB, good for 25 miles.
Maltodextrin 11 oz (honeyvillegrain.com)
Whey Protein 4 oz (GNC)
Soy Lecithin 1 oz (local health food store)
Chromium Picolinate 200 3.5 tabs (700 mcg, GNC)
Choline Bitartrate 250 1.5 tabs (375 mg, GNC)
Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500 1.0 tabs (500 mg, GNC)
Total cost is $4.68/LB compared to $9.40/LB for Perpetuem.
The malto was a 50 LB bag (about 12 gallons)
The flavoring comes with the Whey Protein of which I have 10 LBs lying around.
Bulk soy protein (44 LB bag) would drop the price to $2.82/LB + flavoring.Apr 20, 2012 at 8:44 pm #1869571
@eugeneiusLocale: Nuevo Mexico
This is great info Nathan, thanks for sharing. Please keep this thread up to date as you test it out on your long mileage trail days.
What are you using for flavor? Probably my only knock on Perpetuem is the flavor, which is borderline palatable.
I fueled without fail on Perpetuem last weekend and didn't have any issues, other than the cost of Hammer products and the taste.
Between your Perpetuem "homebrew" and Greg Gressel's maltodextrin formula I may be on my way to endurance fuel independence.Apr 20, 2012 at 9:06 pm #1869573
Thanks and yer welcome. I LOVE hiking with malto-carb drinks, but the $$ add up fast. I keep a 2L in the pack with 1 LB powder so I don't have to stop and mix. Up front I keep about 1 hours' supply in a baby bottle – fits easy and light in a pocket. (Thank Brett Maune for that idea)
The flavoring is in the Whey I bought – which is too sweet really. There's no sugar in the whey so it's aspartame or some such. I still haven't found a source for powdered flavors. Perhaps the liquid forms could be bound in something. I do like stevia as a sweetener – just a drop'll dooya.Apr 20, 2012 at 11:18 pm #1869597
drowning in spamMember
Powdered flavors are easy to find if all you want are fruit flavors. The easiest to find are Kool Aid unflavored packets.Apr 22, 2012 at 2:54 pm #1869975
Thanks for the flavor source. I'll try it out.
Hiked 26 miles using MYOGel. Energy was fine up until mile 18 (other reasons on another thread). Once I started downhill at mile 22 it was fine again.
As for using the flavor built-in to the protein (Gold Standard 100% Whey w/Strawberry), NO WAY! Too, too sweet with the sucralose (Splenda) additive. The sweet stays in your mouth even after a shot of H20. The malto hit should be refreshing, at least neutral. Will try with unflavored protein next.
I give it only 3.5 stars – big hit on the sweetness, as expected on the energy.
NateApr 22, 2012 at 3:15 pm #1869984
drowning in spamMember
There's this too:
That's the only place I could find that doesn't make it difficult to order smaller quantities, although the smallest 1/2 pound order still seems like an awful lot of flavoring.
I'll probably combine it with this, which doesn't have flavoring or sweetener.
That'd be perfect since my meal replacement drink already has a source of carbs that has sweet enough for me during the last couple of years.Apr 22, 2012 at 3:25 pm #1869985
thanks for posting- I'll have to look into that as well, like Eugene (the first posting Eugene :) ) I find Perpetuem works but the cost and flavor leave a lot to be desiredApr 22, 2012 at 4:56 pm #1870016
Nice finds Eugene III! Will be ordering some of these flavors and protein.Apr 23, 2012 at 4:59 am #1870116
@butukiLocale: Kanto Plain, Japan
My friend Chris came up with this homemade concoction for his (very strenuous) mountain climbs. I use something similar, but add "kinako" (powdered, roasted soy… makes the concoction taste like peanut butter) for the protein and coconut butter for the fat. Only need about a mouthful every hour. Without the fat I tend to get bad sugar crashes.Apr 30, 2012 at 9:04 pm #1872948
Well, I've put in some 70 miles with this recipe having changed to a Vanilla flavored whey powder. Still a little sweet, but it doesn't have the Splenda after-taste (some other sweetener). I make up 1/2 lb in 40 oz H2O (about 1000 kcal, good for ~14-16 miles/4 hours). I'm still waiting for the unflavored whey and unsweetened flavors to arrive.
So the energy has been really awesome. Sips every 5 min or so. After the hikes (8-26 miles) I down an additional 400 kcals' worth as recovery. I think that is helping a lot to boost the glycogen reserve capacity.
One thing I've found is on extended uphills I have a very short explosive energy available to practically fly up about twenty steps without changing heartrate or feeling hamstring burn. What a difference that makes! Those pesky stairs used to really slow down the pace, but I'm easily doing 400 ft elev of 700 ft/mi grade without falling below 3.5 mph, and that near the end of the hikes with 20+ lb pack.
Now a lot of that is physical conditioning, but what a diff the malto makes.
Two changes I'll make: Less lecithin (accumulates on the walls of the bottle) and add 16 endurolyte capsules per pound (2 per hour so I don't have to keep up with those while I hike).May 1, 2012 at 3:57 am #1873009
You are going through the same learning curve that I went through two years ago. Here's wher I came out.
1) It's all about taste. If you can't drink it it's worthless. I ended up finding the crystal light flavors to be the best. CL has sweetness and when added to the natural sweetness of Malto may be too much. Maybe try 1/2 the flavoring level per liter.
2)Lecithin. I found it tasted like poo and eliminated it per item 1.
3) Protein. Same as Lecithin except I varied my diet to trickle in proyein using other sources. I normally will alternate hours, Malto then other food, repeat all day long. Not only will that give me some protein but it will also vary the carb sources which some information would suggest is helpful.
4) Make your own electrolytes out of Mortons' Light Salt and a Calcium Magnesium complex. You can match the profile of endurolytes exactly and it will be a whole lot cheaper. I would typically add the equivalent of three endurolytes into each hours mix.
5) Finally back to taste. If you are doing multiday hikes then take a wide variety of flavors. I even started mixing flavors on my thru and never was sick of the Malto mix even after 98 days.
Finally, while there is some great info on Hammer's site keep in mind that there is also a good bit of marketing hype. They are an answer, not THE answer. Have fun on your quest for the magical mix.
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