Selling my Trail Gloves. Anyone using the VivoBareFoot Breatho Trail shoe? Compare to Trail Glove & NB MT10?

Didn't you just start this same thread yesterday?

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=62475

Not quite the same. I'm now looking at the Vivobarefoot Breatho Trail and thought I'd start a new thread…hoping to grab the attn of potential Vivobarefoot owners that might otherwise skip over the previous thread. Hope this doesn't tread on anyone's toes…..

I get your reasoning. Problem is, taking the MT10 comparisons as an example, the responses relative to that topic will be segregated into two separate threads which will be both incomplete and redundant.

Thanks, Nathan. I posted in haste. I know better……

I have edited to hopefully quench issues. I edited my title too but it only shows after the thread is clicked on.

I like the earlier (and more expensive) Neo Trail quite a bit. Very wide forefoot, good comfort. Very low, thin and flexible. I feel every pebble and pine cone underfoot. It is not nearly as form-fitting as the NB MT110 or the Trail Glove. A bit more of a "slipper" and less of a "glove", for lack of better terms. For my feet (normal width/no arch/slightly long toes) there is a little bit of slip in the fit. You seem to carry less than I do and have sturdier feet so it may be just right for you. Extremely water resistant with a corresponding lack of breathability. Superb traction, I almost never slip even on PNW mud and slickrock.

I have tried on, but don't own the Breatho. It's much cooler/more breathable, same fit, but I have some concerns about the tongue – or rather the lack of one. The Neo Trail has a normal tongue but on the Breatho it is an integrated part of the upper. When I tightened the laces the tongue has to bunch up a bit in order to compress. I didn't like that.

Thank you, Tom. Excellent feedback. Just what I was looking for!

I have since found and read several reviews on the Net. One other person also commented on the Breatho's tongue. Seems they stated that when the laces were tightened, they could be felt through the tongue creating discomfort.

On another note, do you feel the lugs under your forefeet…or anywhere else? Seems with such pronounced lugs on that thin and flexible of a sole and one would feel the lugs pressing into their foot.

Without the stock insole in place, yes, I can feel the lugs along the bottom of my feet a bit on hard terrain. Overall I found the sole to be a bit thin for my soft feet, so I always use the insole. With the insole I don't notice the lugs. Like I mentioned before, I love the traction. It's the best I've found on a shoe short of wearing microspikes or other traction device.

I'm still looking for the perfect "light boot replacement shoe" for my feet, I haven't found it yet:

The MT110 is good.

MT00 is a great shoe but a bit minimal for serious hiking, at least for me.

I'm looking forward to the MT1010 that is coming out in a couple of months.

I like the fit and feel of the Trail Glove but wish for better wet traction.

Brooks PureGrit is a nice shoe but feels a bit…tall. That is improving with time. Also lacking in wet traction. But it's my primary trail runner and I'll be trying it on hikes.

I'd love to try the new Saloman S-Lab but it's brutally expensive.

In the meantime the Neo Trail is a regular on my feet, for trail runs on moderate terrain and shorter hikes. Lack of breathability and my fragile feet will keep me from using it all the time in warmer weather.

Thanks again, Tom!

One other question. From photos, it looks like the forefoot curves up quite a bit….or has lots of rocker, one might say. That was one of my biggest gripes with the Trail Gloves; my toes felt like they were unnaturally being bent up. Do you sense that with the Vivobarefoot when just walking/hiking?

Negative. I don't have any issue with the toebox shape or structure. But I don't have any issue with this on the Trail Gloves either, in fact I find those to be quite flat, so my opinion about this detail may not be valid for you.

I use vivobarefoot breatho and neo shoes and find they are quite a bit wider in the midfoot than other brands, including NB and Altra. If you compare the insoles they are 0.5-1 cm wider in the arch area than other shoes. My foot is wider in the midfoot and i have long toes so they work great for me, if you often feel the outside of shoes digging into your foot this might be your shoe. Also they are sturdy, hold up well to abuse and have great grip, even on ice.

I would prefer a shoe that was even wider in the midfoot and had a bit less volume overall but only water shoes seem to offer this and I destroy those too quickly to use them hiking.

You do feel the lugs but it's OK on trails. I wear an old pair around town too as everyday shoes and you get used to it, even on concrete. Also I initially felt mine were too big but got used to the size so something to consider if you're in between sizes.

I own both the Neo and Breatho Trails, and my girlfriend owns the 1st-gen NB Minimus. I would definitely stay away from the Minimus line. I dunno if this has happened to anyone else but parts of the outsole started ripping and coming off, only a few months after she started using them. Seems like somewhat weak foam. Might be comfortable but I would have real concerns about stability and durability. I haven't owned the Merrells but I've tried them on and didn't like them one bit. The sole is too stiff and too rounded. I think they were going for a sock-like look/feel, but it didn't work for me.

Between the Neos and the Breathos, I would say it depends on what you want to use them for. Neos are great for cold weather and quickly fording very small streams/puddles. If water does get in, you're screwed. The insides (and your feet) will be wet for hours. The Breathos are nice for warmer weather, and while they're not at all water-resistant, they do dry out quickly. I too like them with the insole just because, here in Colorado the trails can be quite rocky (as you'd expect) and the little extra cushion helps prevent soreness for me. The big benefit to either Vivobarefoot shoe is of course the lugs. Coming off my last pair of trail shoes, which had much smaller and shorter circular grips placed very close together, I find the Vivobarefoot outsole so much more stable. It might be a peace of mind sort of thing, but I feel more secure in these shoes. The Breathos are a tad lighter but I feel the upper's durability might suffer a bit compared to the Neos. I don't have any issue with the neoprene tongue-like-thing at all. Don't feel the laces through them or anything. I'm a fan of both shoes, but they're made for different trail conditions. For most conditions, I would say the Breathos are the best choice, but it remains to be seen how long the upper will last (I wouldn't expect them to last for years, I guess).

Thanks for the additional replies, guys!

Question for Gmod and Patrick: Does the toe spring (curvature in the toes, rocker) in the Vivobarefoots bother you at all while standing or just walking?

At the moment, the toe spring is the only thing holding me back from ordering the Breathos. It would be really nice if they were a bit lighter too….but they are a touch lighter than the Tevas I was using……

Ah, yea, thanks for bringing that up. That is maybe the primary issue I have with the Vivobarefoot shoes. It's not a big deal but I do notice it. I would say the only time I really notice it is when I'm standing, but it's really no big deal; I wouldn't let it influence your decision too much. I just don't know or understand why Vivobarefoot feels toe spring is a necessary feature. But there isn't another barefoot/minimal shoe out there with the gripping power of the Vivo trail line. If you're into things like ankle support and beefier waterproof materials, they even have a high-top version with the same lugged outsole. Haven't ever tried them but they seem like a nice minimal hiking "boot."

Thanks, Patrick. The Vivo Breatho Trails are looking to be the shoe for me.

Finally, I decided on a shoe: The Vivobarefoot Breathos. I was hesitant to order due to the hassle and cost of shipping them back if they didn't feel right. I then noticed Zappos had free shipping… both ways! So, I ordered two sizes…a 42 and 43. I'm keeping the 42!

They're almost 2 oz heavier than my Trail Gloves but still 2 oz lighter than the Teva trail runners I was using. Traction looks awesome and they feel good. Quality looks standard fare. The Trail Gloves have a more robust look though, IMHO.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Look'n forward to putting these Breathos to use. Now, if I could just get rid of my Trail Gloves….

very interesting. So are these comfortable for 10 miles hikes? I once had shoes with very thin and flat sole and my feet would hurt just walking around town.

I have been getting interested in the 5 fingers vibram for hiking purposes but i am concerned about comfort and ankle support. I currently have merrell chameleon 3 gtx.

"So are these comfortable for 10 miles hikes"?

Man, I sure hope so! Actually, I think my feet will be fine backpacking in them….but I'll find out for certain soon, I hope.

Re ankle support, for me, once I went to a flat shoe that got me close to the ground, the feeling for the need of support went away. I've walked around in my old trail runners a couple times in the last month and the heel rise makes me feel awkward and vulnerable.

Barefoot'n and "barefoot" shoes may be faddish but I think there's a great deal of logic behind it too.

EDITED to reduce redundancy.