Winter pants and jacket

If you have a budget the best bang for your buck are the military surplus jacket and pant liners. I've used these quite extensively and they are quite toasty with their high synthetic loft. Weight, if I can recall correctly, is around 11oz for the jacket and 9oz for the pants.

Here's the first link I found with google, but you can get them for only a few dollars on eBay (even new): http://www.survivorssurplus.com/apparel/m65sliners.html

May not be Micropuff quality, but it's not too far behind!

I agree with Elliot on the military coat and trouser liners; I used them in the Army, and they are quite warm, being quilted continuous filament synthetic insulation.

As our man Richard might confirm, warmth per inch is best provided by high quality down, then polarguard Delta, Montbell Exceloft, high loft fleece, then your typical wool and capilene shirts.

I also assume you are on a budget, or you would have just bought one of the following combos in probable descending order of warmness..
– Western Mountaineering FlightJacket and a down pant,
– Montbell(MB) Alpine Down jacket and UL down pants
– Patagonia MicroPuff jacket and pants,
– Montbell Thermawrap UL Jacket and pants

Ill tell you what I did, I got the Patagonia micropuffs for their full-zips, and I use either a fleece 200, MB Thermawrap, or MB light alpine down on top. I keep my beloved NorthFace DIAD as a shell for any of these.

..so to summarize, actually my recommendation for a budget is the same. Get those GI liners and give em a try. Its called a "M-65 field jacket liner" and "field pant liner".

Another choice are the ECWCS Polar Fleece liners, top and bottom.

Let us know what you decide, and how they do?

Bret and Elliot, Thanks for the input.

I have to say that I did not mean to give the impression that I had a budget. I look at the freedom and small weight of the multiple under layers to be a plus But the smart wool mid layer is not cheap.

But after reading your comments I find that being budget minded is probably a good thing.
The cost of Western mountain products to name only one is up around $375 to $450 for the top and bottom set. Where as the M56 Liners might be around $45 for the set.
Although I love to have only the newest and the best, if they both are comparable then I can’t see spending over $400 for what I can get for $45. Are we talking brand name here or is the weight, insulation, and cost ratio really that much better?

I have been playing in the cold up here in Buffalo, single digits, and have been comfortable with the following while snowshoeing:

Smartwool thin turtleneck, RBH Vaportherm shirt, Cloudveil run dont walk top

Marmot driclime pants (no long johns were needed)

Smartwool liner socks, RBH vaportherm socks, Keen boots (make sure your winter boots are two sizes bigger than your regular shoes)

Possumfur liners, RBH Vaportherm Mittens (actually been happy with the everday model)

Then throw in a parka and insulated pants and you are set, except for headwear

Kevin,
Your telling me that the list you've given is ok for weather in the teens and for a hike of a few days? Almost no layering and you can stay warm?
I have to think about this.

Elliot,
Nice Photos under the shared photo page.

John, you asked a loaded question regarding ratios and values of insulation.
You could rank insulation simply on its R value/$, or R value/oz (most SULers would do that I think), or R value/inch, or a combination of any of these using an excel spreadsheet.. which is exactly what I did for my sleeping bag purchases. The highest 'overall score' went to thin bags with high quality down.

If you were to do some kind of analysis you could determine the 'weighting' multiples for each term in your analysis equation. look at old posts from Richard to get the R values for your choices. This might seem bizzare, or over the top, but I guarantee you other members here at BPL have done it.. in painful detail.

For me, there is not a one garment solution; I have three insulation layers: fleece 200 while active on windless days; Montbell Thermawrap while active on windy days; Montbell down jacket while inactive.

I try to stick with the "three layers" guidance, and just change the R value of each layer as appropriate for the forecast.

Last weekend I was skiing at 20'F (10'F with wind chill) in a wool base layer, pants, thermawrap, and uninsulated shell pants and jacket. I was comfortably cool, which is good advice so you do not perspire and get wet. Inactive at 20'F I wore the same base and pants with the down jacket. (gloves and hat of course).

Lately I have been trying to get the most versatility out of the fewest number of clothing items. The military insulation suggested above is probably NOT appropriate as an outer layer in any civilized setting; and so is not so versitile.

Brett,
I couldn’t agree more. It all seems to hinge around comfort and sweating during activity and then at cool down while at rest. ( the balancing act)
Staying a little on the cold side during activity and then adding the layer of comfort R factor that suits your taste.
I have to say though that adding a second set of dry Montbell(MB) Alpine Down jacket and UL down pants to the back pack for the sleeping bag seems to me to be a good idea for a toasty dry sleep, but the price of the hike just went up.

Your advice here……..
“For me, there is not a one garment solution; I have three insulation layers: fleece 200 while active on windless days; Montbell Thermawrap while active on windy days; Montbell down jacket while inactive.”

………….Is a comfortable way of thinking for me also

Thanks so much for the input. As I tend to be stubborn at times, you have helped me open my mind about all of this.
And I’ll be searching out Richard’s R values as well.

John

I have only tried this on day trips but I cannot imagine bringing more. What other layering would you be looking for? Have you checked out the RBH top?

Anyone else have experience with the field liner pants? I have a Micropuff pullover and love it but simply cannot afford the pants. These field liners look great in terms of price, but how do they perform? Elliot, Brett, could you elaborate?

Also, what size do you have and what are your dimensions?

well… I guess what's happening is cost.
We can buy some real neat stuff (the best the market has to offer)but for some reason just can't afford it or (as for me ) just don't want to afford it.
I think that's what this forum is about. How to stay warm, dry and cumfy at a reasonalble price. Oh yes and light too.
I believe the answer lies in layers, and insulation. Puffy, light insulation.
Ridge vents are installed in our homes to let the air run through the walls and keep us warm.
My home has walls of R 11 and is light and fluffy pink.
We should be able to do this too, while hiking.