Why aren’t there more waterproof packs?

Because you can't tell just by looking at it in the shop if it will leak like a sieve. And there are not a lot of test reports for packs' waterproofness, as there are with rain gear. So we are at their mercy.

All the spectra and dyneema gridstops, as well as silnylons (including the heavier 1.9 oz ones) eventually leak on a pack, no matter how well the seams are sealed during construction. Perhaps it's because packs get the most abrasion and rough treatment. In any case, that's what happens. And it doesn't take dragging behind a truck to happen, just time with normal use. The heavier (and stiffer) Cuben materials have a way of permanently creasing at bends and folds that for me, casts serious doubt on the ability of the thin mylar layer to remain waterproof, especially when subjected to abrasion. Too expensive an investment for an unpredictable outcome. They also look hideous.

The D-P fabrics, like the more supple 5 oz. VX07, show some promise. They are light enough not to add more than a couple ounces to the pack, yet are extremely waterproof, at least initially, and appear to resist abrasion well. So that's my bet for the next pack project, and if buying a pack, would look for this material. You still have to carefully seal the seams, of course, and for MYOGers this is best done during construction. Not having to fiddle with a rain cover = +1.

NWHIKER – I've benn looking at the AC2 packs from Arcteryx and the fabric looks quite durable. I'm curious how it has held up for you. I'm considering an Arrakis 50 to replace a MountainSmith Ghost for winter overnights and summer weekends. Cheers

Miles – The Arcteryx packs are easily the toughest packs I have encountered…there is very little chance you'll ever do any harm to them. I have used a Naos for years now, and it has seen everything from rolls down granite to sharp protruding deadfall, and I actually even have a hard time finding scratches let alone any type of puncture.

Arrakis is made of the same material, so hope that helps.

The Arrakis has lots of little "surprises" which make it nice (access, pockets everywhere, cool ice axe and snow shovel storage, and the dedicated probe pocket makes a great place to stash tent poles or Tenkara rod). Check out the many videos on there website if you haven't already.

Cheers

Ty,

FYI: the Cabelas BW-II 3600 cu in drypack weighs 49oz on my scale. A few inches of webbing and a lifting handle could be cut off, but not much else one could do to lighten these bags.

Then again, in comparison to the Arc'teryx Arrakis, it's half the weight and one fifth the price for close to the same volume.

I ran across this Outdoor Research waterproof pack this weekend. I assume it is a prototype/test model. I haven't seen one like this before and it lacks any consumer labeling. OR is headquartered in Seattle and has design and production staff here, so little surprise.

It has the basic features of the Drycomp Summit pack, but it has a 3D mesh/padded back panel, fabric rather than mesh side pockets and the zippered pocket down the center. It looks like a 35 liter capacity pack and weighs 18oz. Those vertical compression straps convert to a waist belt.

The photos show it with a heavy 20F synthetic sleeping bag for fill. It could benefit from the same packing techniques used for other frameless packs. I think it would make a good wet weather day pack.

Interior seam details:

Picked up an Arrakis 50 a few weeks ago and it is a fantastic pack for what I want (survive the rainy summers in Alaska without worrying about damaging fabric in the rough brush and for some overnight winter travel). Cheers

Typically, there is no such thing as water PROOF , only varying degrees of water resistance.

If you can make a pack as waterproof as a 1.2 oz pack liner for less wt, I want to hear about it.

Patagonia makes some duffel bags which are waterproof to about 5 ft when submerged.

$400 for a plain duffel bag. Its not especially featherweight either.

I got an Exped WB 30, aka the Exped Torrent 30. i absolutely love it. It is very minimalist, if you needed to strap stuff to the outside you can either clip it to the daisy chains or do what i did and run a little bit of shock cord/bungee on the pack using the daisy chains. here are some vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H90JfRg-nEc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CJybpGMBDM

I've had two Arc'teryx waterproof packs: Accrux 50 and Naos 55. I currently own only the Naos 55 and love it. These are really tough packs. The comments above that allude to the fact that a waterproof pack is only waterproof until you get a hole in it are kind of ridiculous … the same can be said about inflatable sleeping pads, gore-tex jackets, or anything that relies on membrane continuity. First-of-all, to get a hole in one of these Arc packs, you'd have to be doing something very very wrong and even then, a little seam grip or duct tape [while enroute] and it'll be repaired. I live in the Pacific NW and 90% of my outdoor pursuits are mountain-based and more likely than not on snow or glaciers. Rain, snow or shine, I always leave these packs outside of my shelter knowing that its contents will remain dry. Both my Arc packs get/got some serious abuse, the type that only a mountain environment can dish-out: from ascending/descending steep, craggy technical couloirs to bushwhacking to being buried in snow outside a snow cave. I've used many a rain cover on packs over the years and I've never found them very effective, the pack fabric wets-out eventually … plus they're a pain in the —.

I suppose that there aren't more waterproof packs out there simply b/c of cost. These Arc'teryx packs start around $400 and go almost to $800. They're not for everyone, they're a bit heavier and if you're camping in parts of the world that rarely see water, there's really no point owning one unless you need the durability. Once you dial-in the frame to your own anatomy, they carry quite comfortably. They're easily one of the best choices for people who beat-the-snot out of their gear.

4# 10 oz of pack to save 2.2 oz of pack liner. Hmm…

"- I want a synthetic insulated jacket that does not weight a ton, has a relaxed fit, and does not cost $200 bucks. "

I purchased a Patogonia Nano Puff pullover recently because of how much I loved my last one. Normal price is $149 but I found it online for $69 shipped. It is ~10oz.

I've got an Exped Cloudburst which seems well sealed. However, I would always use a sack liner even with a "waterproof" pack for the reasons already mentioned. The Aarn packs are marketed as 100% water proof They use a DrLiner within the pack, so really it's just a removable liner inside the pack.

Sure, but tell me what your soaking wet pack weighs? When I used to use a Dana Design pack, if that thing wetted-out it's weight tripled. It's funny how people calculate weight on BPL sometimes, they save weight here, but then have to compensate for the loss here by adding here and here. I see this mostly in people's sleep systems. Regardless, the Arc'teryx packs are more than just waterproof, they're very tough packs that carry loads well. A frameless, cuben fiber pack may be light, but I'd shred that thing on the kind of climbing trips I do. Additionally, climbing gear and backcountry ski gear can be heavy, so a frame is important to me as well. Add waterproofness, tough 420D packcloth, and a frame and you get a heavier, but functional [for my needs] pack. Like I said in my post, they're *not* for everyone. No pack suits everyone's needs. Uber lightweight is not always functional, sometimes you have to strive for "as light as possible" while still meeting your needs. In cold, wet, full-on mountain conditions, I'll take the 'extra' weight of a proper sleeping bag over a quilt or a proper mountaineering tent over a freaking tarp any day.

That actual pack tripled in weight? What was it made out of cotton? That doesn't sound right.

"That actual pack tripled in weight? What was it made out of cotton? That doesn't sound right."

Doesn't sound too far off actually. Just the water absorption alone into nylon fabric can double the weight or more. Wool or cotton can be worse – closer to 4X. And this doesnt include any pooled water in pockets etc.

…I just did the saturated pack experiment with my 30L MYOG frameless pack.

Starting weight: 9.4 oz. Saturated weight (soaking in tub until fully wet out and then wrung out by hand): 16 oz on the nose. After hanging outside for ~20 min (sunny, ~50*) the straps were still soaking, but most of the VX-21 no longer looked wetted out. Weight had dropped to 12 oz.

Front, back and bottom of pack are VX-21. Sides and extension collar are 70D silnylon (coated one side). Shoulder straps and hip belt are VX-21 with 3D mesh. Other straps are flat nylon, and there's a few grosgrain daisy chains.

I realize this is only one data point, but as many others have observed, VX-21 is a great pack fabric. Not sure why more commercial pack makers don't use it.

I love the vx-21 fabric…or at least I think I do if that is what mountainsmith used on the old ~2004 ghost models. It seems like the fabric arcteryx uses on the naos and arrakis are even more durable (more important to me than waterproofness though maybe the vx-42 is very comparable to the 420 ACT) Is there a good source of the vx-21 for myog?

Cheers

Nevermind I see that Rockywoods fabrics carries the VX-21 currently.

Anybody looking to unload an A2 in the 40 to 50 liter range?

Also the Granite Gear Vapor Flatbed concept is a solid concept. The apparent versatility is impressive. Anymore feedback on it's use?

As somebody said, Arcteryx makes waterproof packs, but they are ridiculously heavy (seem to remember like 2.6 kilograms for a 75L pack!).

Osprey packs are semi-waterproof, that is in regular rain they won't let water in.

I do a lot of canyoneering, where you typically have to go into water and swim with your pack on (and ON your pack). What we do is we actually put drain holes in the pack and use dry bags inside. No pack will hold against sandstone. Not even thick vinyl haul bags from Metolius. So, as somebody correctly noted, a waterpoof pack is only waterproof until the first hole.

It is true that a soaked pack weighs a lot more, especially when full of water. Coming out of a pool sometimes it's hard to even get up on your feet. Most packs trap water between layers of fabric and become very heavy. That's where vinyl bags come handy. But I digress.

It seems to me, a much better solution is a regular light pack plus a compactor bag liner for regular wet conditions; or several dry bags when you need to submerge completely.

i used to think the same but after 8 days of non stop rain in Scotland i changed my mind, my wife ULA catlyst with rain cover was mostly dry, my exos was soaked ( the gear inside was in plastic trash bag and dry )

at home i did the test with a few packs a golite ion, the catalyst a talon my exos etc…

a soaked backpack can weight 500G more ( after turnin it upside down a few mins so water didnt pool inside ) than dry

a raincover is 30g ( cuben ) 60g ( silnylon ) and if some water sticks on it and if the backpack gets some water along the back its less than half this weight.