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Down vest or fleece vest

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PostedMar 15, 2012 at 11:29 am

After many years of not being able to stomach the silly looks of any vest, I'm now either accepting the function and weight savings aspects or I'm just getting old.

My question isnt as simple as the title implies. I'm trying to consider my system as a whole and imcorporate it with my sleep system. So for layering from warm to cold weather, I prefer the following: merino wool t-shirt, merino wool long sleeve shirt, fleece jacket, down jacket and then sleeping bag. Considering that I want to stick with this layering system in this order, which should I make a vest out of…. the fleece or the down jacket? (keeping in mind function for the warmer side of the scale as well as the cold).

Thanks in advance!!

Bob Gross BPL Member
PostedMar 15, 2012 at 11:38 am

It depends on what body parts get cold first. If you have arms like Larry The Cable Guy, then it doesn't matter.

I keep my denser layers closer to my skin, so my warm synthetic fleece shirt goes over a base layer. Then I have two puffy layers, so I can use one or the other or both. Those are a WM down vest and a Montbell down inner jacket. Then a rain parka shell goes over the top of all that. The two puffy layers go into the sleeping bag with me overnight in case it gets cold. Plus, when I emerge from the sleeping bag in the morning, the two puffy layers are already warm, so that helps me out waiting for the breakfast water to boil.

I don't think my down layers would work good underneath the fleece.

–B.G.–

Greg F BPL Member
PostedMar 15, 2012 at 12:04 pm

I think you have to assess what you are doing when you add each layer and whether or not you are too warm or cold at that point in time.

SO when you are active to you wear your fleece layer? Are you too warm when hiking in the fleece layer?

When you are in camp when do you put on your down jacket?, Are you to warm when you first put it on.

When you sleep are your arms too warm or cold?

Overall I would lean toward a fleece vest as the weight savings are probably higher and it would expand the range you could wear the fleece while active before you had to take it off. The only reason I would say down vest would be if you are cool while being active with just the fleece on.

Erik Hagen BPL Member
PostedMar 15, 2012 at 12:44 pm

You may want to consider using a Melanzana Fleece Pullover (Micro Grid Crew). My size M weighs right around 7 oz. It's lighter than any fleece vest than I can currently find on the market. Even Melanzana's Fleece Hoodie at ~ 10 oz is as light as most fleece vests out there.

A few years ago i picked up a Montbell Fleece Vest that weighed 5.6 oz which has been the lightest I've ever found. Unfortunately it's no longer made. Currently I'm using the Melanzana Top with a WM Flight Jacket for my warmth layers. The combined weight is 17 oz.

John S. BPL Member
PostedMar 15, 2012 at 2:46 pm

Montbell Chameece Vest still made at 5.6 oz. in medium.

Erik Hagen BPL Member
PostedMar 15, 2012 at 3:13 pm

Thanks John. They must have brought it back. They dropped their entire Chameece line from their website at one point. It's a great vest.

PostedMar 15, 2012 at 10:11 pm

Tough question…..ideally you'd have both.

A vest can be either a hikers primary piece of insulation (warmer weather trips), or a supplementary piece of insulation for colder trips (ie. down jacket + vest).

For the former, I like a down vest because they are lighter (ie. Montbell Ex-light at 4oz) and on warm weather trips there isn't a real danger if insulation gets wet.

For the latter, I prefer fleece because on colder shoulder season trips I'll often not want to have all my eggs in one basket with down. A fleece vest can be a great way to extend the use of a down jacket and provide an element of safety if conditions really get sloppy and/or a wet accident happens.

If you could only have one, I guess I'd say fleece although my talk doesn't jive with my walk right now.

Insulation Ideals:
Summer: Montbell Ex-Light Vest
2-season: 8-12oz down jacket or maybe synth if trip is long and wet
shoulder season: same down/synth jacket + fleece vest
deep winter: serious down parka

James holden BPL Member
PostedMar 15, 2012 at 10:52 pm

youll more likely be active in it than down .. thats where the extra ventilation from a vest matters …

James Marco BPL Member
PostedMar 16, 2012 at 5:10 am

Fleece or Down? Really, this is not much of a question to me. You need both. Perhaps debating the merits of a vest might be more appropriate.

To me, a vest is additional core insulation. It provides extra ventilation which is at odds with the insulation but does a good job under a rain jacket or parka. 'Corse you loose the extra ventilation that a vest provides. At night, these work fine, but in the morning, again, the extra ventilation can lead to some heat loss as you pack up your gear. At 12oz, a full down sweater (First Ascent or the like) will do a better job. It is OK to put something over your shoulders when you get up, though. Evenings, night and mornings is when I really need extra insulation. I term this "sleeping cloths," though, in a worst case sceanario, they get used otherwise.

Your arms (and legs) can get cool. Your body has a way of shutting off blood flow to your extremities. So, this does not really effect your overall safety. However, you will be more comfortable with your arms covered. I tried a down vest but was not very happy with it in the mornings. At night, it didn't much matter and I thought I had a winner. Iff you wear it during the day, it may get wet. In either material, you DON'T want it in the sleeping bag. So both being bad to use at night if they are wet, I think it is possible to ignore getting it wet.

Fleece is simply not as good an insulator as down. So, for summer, fleece works best because it is thinner. However, down compresses better…the bulk mostly a product of the two layer shell material. Fleece uses a single layer that is scratched out in a controlled fashion. So you have a single shell with insulation on both sides. If you use it during the day, it will get wet. So does down. Wet down is worse than wet fleece. But, if you will be using this as sleeping cloths, then it should NEVER get wet in the fist place. Hmmm…

This means that you will always be packing the vest, if you plan on sleeping in it. Using it when you stop at camp, at night and in the morning, means it pays in every case, though. While hiking, you need something different. Except in very cold (snow) or dry conditions, you simply cannot use it for both, unless you get in a pinch. If you have to take it off at night because you have a warm night, that's OK. You'll need it too often to not bring it. It also lets you use it as extra sleeping insulation. This means you can use a lighter sleeping bag. Basically, you save about half the weight in reduced sleeping bag thicknesses. The savings are somewhat less with fleece vs. down, due to the higher insulation qualities of down. The overall packability of down vs fleece means that when coupled with the lighter bag, you won't be adding extra bulk to the pack with a down vest (or very little with a fleece one.)

Other than a regular washing, down does not need any maintenence. Simply hanging it loosely, upside down between uses, works best.

Fleece does. After each trip it should be washed (easier with fleece than down) and brushed with a stiff hair brush. Otherwise it looses performance rapidly. The fibers will get matted and tangled loosing insulating value if you do not brush them out. DO NOT dry fleece on hot. The fibers can kink and mat. Rather dry it slowly like down. Even then, it is only good for a couple seasons of use before it will start failing. But, compared to a down vest, it is cheap. You can usually buy three or four for the price of one down item. Down will last a whole lot longer. As long as the shell material is intact, it should be good…10-15 years, easily. For long term use, down is highly recommended.

I believe in Skurka's book, he has a table of the relative merits of the two. I disagree that his sleeping cloths should be included in this matrix, though. Sleeping cloths will never get wet. Nor does he discus the relative comfort of having a seperate insulation for bed that can stay on you when you wake for pee time, and in the morning. And the weight savings of the sleeping system because of the extra insulation (vest or sweater) being included in the system. (The lack of a more systemic approach -related items, gear and techniques- is my only real criticism of his book, BTW.)

IFF you do not use it as sleeping cloths, or are traveling in wet conditions, fleece is better at holding insulating qualities when wet and it dries much easier than down.

So, in closing, I would recommend both. It depends on when, where and what conditions you expect to encounter. I bring both types of sweaters, but, in the ADK's I prefer long sleeves against all the bugs. Fleece for day use, it is better wet and ventilates a bit better. Down for camp and sleeping. Both when it is very cold…around 10F and I am hiking.

Fleece is better in wet conditions

PostedMar 16, 2012 at 11:02 am

Do you mean just a down or a fleece choice? Two of my most used pieces of kit are a synthetic windproof mesh-back vest to add just-enough insulation without overheating. Whilst tight I can put it over a shell to add a bit more insulation.

http://www.montane.co.uk/products/men/windproof/featherlite-ultra-gilet/832

and a synthetic insulated vest which can be worn over base or over something thicker, the only proviso being I can't fully zip up the collar if over two layers. There are plenty of similar designs such as from GoLite but this one is mine

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXINSULATORLTGILETTORRESUNISEX

Both are sufficiently breathable you shouldn't be sweating if wearing sleeping.

I did use to own a down vest but I found it less useful, the insulation so little I was using it above-freezing so I sold it and bought the synthetic vest and bought a down jacket which would get used below-freezing.

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