Avoiding soot from alchy stoves?

[Kier Selinsky]

I recently got my first alchy stove, a Gram Weenie Pro from End 2 End Trail Supply, and really like the little bugger. As soon as I got it, I loaded it up with an ounce of 90% Isopropyl alcohol and had 16oz of ice water boiling in 6 minutes. However, I was a bit miffed at the amount of soot that resulted. I mean it was thick on the Imusa mug I got with it, and the idea of managing this on the trail was not appealing.

I'm doing an overnighter this weekend, and so did a quick Google to find how to resolve this soot problem. I stumbled on this old BPL thread where Ben mentions "Denatured alcohol burns clean. No soot."

At first I thought "sweet! problem solved!". But then I skimmed the article that was linked to in that thread, The Performance of Alcohol Fuels for Backpacking Stoves Part One: Three Straight Alcohols and Alcohol Blends, and I found the following quote from Tinny of MBD:
"The additives are the problem with denatured alcohol. If you had used this denatured alcohol from different sources you will discover that sometimes it has stuff like bleach in it. I have had it give off fumes that sent me running for my life because it caused my eyes to burn as well as my lungs. I have also seen a thick brown residue left behind that caused jets to plug up as well as causing bubbles of a plastic-like substance to form inside the stove."

At the conclusion of the article, it says
"Some forms of denatured ethanol with a 95% ethanol content (available as 'methylated spirits' in some countries) are just as good as pure ethanol, but great care is needed in America to get the right sort. The wrong sort may be … more toxic!"

So, my question is, is Denatured alcohol the answer? Are there some brands that work better than others? Is there an additive in some denatured alcohols that I should avoid?

[Travis Leanna]

Kier,
I have a Gram Weenie stove, and I use a cheaper version of Everclear. 190 proof booze. It is one of the best fuels for alcohol stoves, but it is expensive. On the upside, it burns super clean, gives of no harmful vapors, and you can drink it….sort of :)

[Jace Mullen]

Many members here use HEET (in the yellow bottle). It is a gas line antifreeze so is very pure. Tinny is correct about denatured alcohol being no bueno, I have had some crazy fumes coming off of my stove when I used to burn it. I would like to use everclear but that would be hard to explain to a cop if I got pulled over or something like that as I'm not 21.

I have never had any soot from HEET.

[Steve Gaioni]

Alcohol stoves are not intended to be fueled with drugstore variety isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol). That's why you had issues with it. Go with HEET, as previously suggested. It is chemically different and will perform as intended.

[Ben C]

Either of these will work with no soot

[EndoftheTrail]

" I loaded it up with an ounce of 90% Isopropyl alcohol "

DON'T! Use denatured alcohol instead — such as the SLX brand mentioned above — available in ALL hardware stores, and Wal Mart too.

[Franco Darioli]

Here in Australia we have 95% Ethanol as our standard alcohol, under $4 for 1 liter, so no problem for us.
In the US I used that SLX stuff and I could not tell the difference in performance between the two .
I did not measure it but having done 10 days with 1/2 a liter of SLX in my Caldera Cone , it seems to me that I used pretty much the same as here.
But of course some worry about the additives, not sure how those people get to the trail head without worrying about car gas emissions…
BTW, no you are not meant to drink it nor gargle with it,clean your eyes or anything like that. Treat it just as you do with the white spirit used for those multi fuel stoves.
Franco

[Kier Selinsky]

Thanks for the awesome info! Can't wait to run a true test in the field tomorrow night!

[Steven Paris]

I usually use Heet, but also have a container of SLX Denatured Alcohol. SLX also makes another version, "Green" Denatured Alcohol. It might be the manufacturing process that is greener, rather than the final product but at least it is a potentially better product.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21622

[Michael Duke]

The Green version has much higher ethanol content.

[Kier Selinsky]

thanks again for the excellent info. based on the comments about Green SLX, I found another thread that showed it was over 90% ethanol. That makes it the top choice, and the other SLX and HEET the secondary choices.

[Benjamin Auer]

I find even the clean strip green denatured alcohol which is like 90 ethanol burns somewhat sooty. Your best bet is either, yellow heet or slx which is 50/50 methanol/ethanol. I did find that if I mixed the clean grip green alcohol with some yellow heet it eliminates the soot.

[Kier Selinsky]

Thanks for the help guys. I got the SLX (no green available locally) and used it on my overnighter Saturday night. Happy to report that there was no soot.

I did have a separate issue though for which I don't think there's a short term cure. It was rainy, cold, and a little windy. Because of this, my fingers were a little clumsy as there's only so much that can be done with these stoves with gloves on. After getting the stove lit I was setting the pot on it as carefully as possible and it slipped, sending the stove pouring over. Fuel and fire went all over the area I was set up in. I had chosen a good area to cook in, and all ground and wood was very well saturated, so there was no risk of that.

However as I waited for the alcohol to burn off I looked over at my son and thought about all the times I'm gonna be cooking with rambunctious and clumsy boy scouts in the years to come, and I just know this is a bad idea. This could have been a much bigger issue if I was cooking closer to a tent or dry tinder. I knew that stove tipping can be an issue with alchy stoves, but if it's that easy to make a mistake, I'd rather avoid it, especially when I've got a bunch of kids around.

[Philip Delvoie]

"I knew that stove tipping can be an issue with alchy stoves, but if it's that easy to make a mistake, I'd rather avoid it, especially when I've got a bunch of kids around."

Kier,

I am a big fan of the simplicity of alcohol and use a fancy feast stove. So far no accidents on my side but I can certainly understand the concern around kids. Perhaps a simple esbit stove? You will be adding soot back into the mixture but as a solid fuel certainly a bit more forgiving. Plenty of myog opportunities…or you can buy something simple such as: http://www.rei.com/product/653343/esbit-pocket-stove

[Jace Mullen]

The simple solution I would suggest is to get a alcohol stove that does not have an integrated pot support.

Something like the Caldera Cone would be very safe. In fact, while cooking water (in the dark), someone kicked my cone while walking through the area. The cone stayed up, and the stove kept burning.

There are many more stoves that require a pot stand of sorts, using one of those might improve the safety as a whole.

[EndoftheTrail]

"The simple solution I would suggest is to get a alcohol stove that does not have an integrated pot support."

My own experience, it's the fuel you use and not whether your stove has an integrated pot support. My homemade stove has an integrated pot support. Over the years of using SLX denatured alcohol, I have NEVER had a problem with soot. Not once and not even a little bit.

[Randy Nelson]

"I use a cheaper version of Everclear. 190 proof booze."

Travis, what is the cheaper version called? I didn't know there was anything 190 besides Everclear and never thought to ask about it. I use S-L-X when testing stoves at home and Everclear in the field when I use an alky stove.

[P. Larson]

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!!!! You are using actual alcohol in your stove?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Travis Leanna]

Its called Volkov. I can get it for ~$14 for a liter.

[Kier Selinsky]

@Philip – esbit is a good idea, and would have reasonable safety around the kids, but I really really hate soot. I'll think about it.

@Jace – that's good to know that the cone helped insulate the issue. I'm still leery though the worst thing for an alchy fire is water, so I just have this image in my mind of scouts running around camp, kicking the alchy stove over, and having the water from the pot wash the fire into god knows where. One of my chief goals when going into the woods, especially when scouts are involved, is to not make the front page of the local paper.

@Ben – your SLX recommendation worked perfectly, but we've drifted into a safety topic. See my "No Soot!" post a few entries above.

[Randy Nelson]

Thanks Travis.

Burning alcohol? Yes. Everclear is quite a bit more expensive but it's worth it to me. Methanol is really nasty stuff. I use it for testing stoves as I'm not sitting around them when I do so I'm not worried about breathing the fumes. But in camp, I do sometimes sit near the stove or even under the tarp while I cook. And I don't want to breathe methanol fumes of any kind no matter how small the amount.

[Randy Martin]

Just so we are clear, Klean Strip SLX is mostly Ethanol not Methanol. Not sure that really makes a difference in your analysis though.

[Randy Nelson]

For some reason I thought it was 50-50 but I could definitely be wrong on the mixture. The can was sitting right next to me on my work bench but it doesn't say. It does say:

VAPOR HARMFUL. Avoid breathing vapor. (Those are minor compared to the rest of the warnings.)

I already had a no breathing methanol policy anyway. :) For me personally, that is enough to use it for testing stoves only. I light them and walk away. I used to deal with large quantities of methanol when making bio-diesel and the rule was always hold you breath when exposed to it. I still follow that.

[Kier Selinsky]

Earlier in this conversation I had found a thread that pointed to SLX being 50-50. The Green SLX though is over 90% ethanol.

[Gary Dunckel]

I'm pretty sure it is 50-50. Check the MSDS on the company's website.

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