Possible Backpack- Feedback Wanted

This looks awesome. My only comment is make it affordable and keep it simple.

I do not claim to have anywhere near the experience that many of those who gave you feedback have which is exactly why I decided to give mine. Are you hoping to sell mostly to the "elite" from this website or to a larger group? In my opinion…

most people (myself included) would prefer a winged hipbelt. I will concede that this one looks wide and it may be possible to change it a little there (only a little) but definately keep it. Most of us prefer comfort over a few ounces. Even at 20lbs I don't like my shoulders doing all the work

I feel that you should also keep the mesh backpanel. Most of us hike in warm weather and the mesh panel does make a difference. Like I said, many prefer comfort over an ounce or two.

You may be able to reduce the height of the stretch front pocket but not a lot. You would want to kep it useable. It's borders on complete waist if you can't put anything useable into it.

Someone earlier mentioned daisy chains on the shoulder straps but I personally would not bother with those but I have seen a lot of people hanging stuff off of them.

I do like the idea of hipbelt pockets. These are a great advacement and I wonder why it took so long for many companies to get on board. Making them removable would of course appeal to both sides of the discussion.

From readingh gear lists and such not many people on this site seem to care at all about price but I believe that many people will. I am amazed as I read through peoples gear collections on here. I outfit my whole family (myself. wife, two kids) for a lot less money than some of these guys seem to spend in a year. Anyway, even us cheap guys are looking for lightweight dependable gear. My last thought is make it tough so it will last more than 2-3 years and keep the price reasonable.

Hi Lawson,

Nice looking pack!

"Contouring: I am not sure this is the correct term, but the back-panel is not flat like a board.. Your back is curved, so the pack is designed to work with the natural curves of your back which makes it ride closer… I see this problem with so many frameless cottage packs. The packs have a huge gap between the top of the back and the point right below the shoulder straps. Its a big triangle type space and it shouldn't be there and the only way to get rid of it, is by designing the pack with a curved back-panel. It also allows the pack to carry heavier loads with more comfort.. Might not make sense in the pictures or how I am writing it but it makes sense when you put it on.. Its a difference you can feel.."

I understand working with the natural curves of a persons back.

FWIW A little of that "triangle" is not a bad thing. IMO the hip belt should carry as much of the load as possible. The shoulder straps should ideally never go downward after crossing over the shoulders and attach to the pack at something near a 90 degree angle.

Load lifters on a frame-less pack IMHO only help to achieve that "ride closer to the curve of the back" design. When load lifters are over adjusted and raise the curve of the shoulder straps higher than around 90 degree point of attachment the weight begins to hang on the shoulders. This gets worse if the torso length of the pack is shorter than it should be on the pack wearer.

"Backpanel: Woven Fabric vs. Spacer Mesh. What do most people prefer"?

Breath-ability is the key and is not a function of the fabric so much as it is the creation of air channels between the wearer's back and the pack. The REI Flash 30 is a good example of this design.

"Closure System: Simple drawcord type with a compression strap going over the top. Same as used in most lightweight simple packs..You can roll the top down and compress for added rain resistance.. I could get fancier and do a full rolltop but it seems as if most people prefer the drawcord top. I could be wrong and would love to hear peoples feedback on this".

A roll down top closure is the way to go in my opinion. It offers more weather resistance and presents a lot neater appearance when the center or Y strap is pulled down for compression. The roll down closure can also be an somewhat of an aid in compressing the load vertically. I have used side release buckles and webbing to hold down the L and R sides of the roll down closure on my packs.

The dry bag type of closure is also an option. I don't like the drawcord closures because of the hole left in the top of the pack. Rolling it down to "hide the hole" uses up pack volume and produces "horns" on the top R and L of the pack when the center or Y strap is pulled tight for compression.

I'm not a fan of hydration reservoir pockets either. I use shockcorded water bottle carriers on my shoulder straps and a prupose built shelter pocket on one side and water bottle pocket on the other side. My tent is 27 ounces and a liter of water is about 2.2 pounds. I keep my stakes. lines and inflatable pillow with my tent to help balance things out.

Party On,

Newton

Really nice looking pack! Here are my comments, probably not typical:

It already sounds as though several options would be desirable.

As a short woman, no way could I use the pack unless you either have an adjustable torso length (down to 15") or make a short version that will fit a 15" torso length.

Also, as a woman, my center of gravity is a lot lower than most men's, so I need full weight transfer to the hips. No way would I be comfortable with a webbing belt (I have a supportive hipbelt even on my summer day pack). Possible removeable hipbelt so people could order what they want? The slightly narrower hip belt would be OK. Needs to be some adjustment so the belt will fit curvier female hips as well as men's.

My experience (with an SMD pack) is that load lifters aren't much use without some kind of stay. Removable lightweight stays or removable stiff back panel, for those (like me) who need load lifters and/or more structure to their pack and/or occasionally have to carry heavier loads and/or (like me) have very sensitive shoulders.

Another roll top or dry bag closure fan here, but please, no velcro! In case you haven't already figured it out, my current pack is an SMD pack and I'm seriously considering chopping off that awful velcro closure on what is otherwise an excellent pack. Everything sticks to the velcro going in and out of the pack and it collects trash and dog hair. Unfortunately, I'm an extremely poor sewer.

Final thought: Nearly all lightweight pack manufacturers neglect the child/youth market. That leaves us parents/grandparents with no choice but to buy a 2 1/2 to 3 pound pack for a child who shouldn't be carrying more than 10 pounds–or less–in the first place, but who do need a good pack suspension. IMHO this is a big hole in market coverage that your pack might just fit, if the basic pack (in a small size, and adjustable) can be made economically. Things get even worse when the kid outgrows the child-size pack but is just short of the teenage "shooting up" stage–the few packs available are all close to 4 pounds! Again, there would need to be some stiffening (lightweight frame sheet) for more weight transfer to the hips.

Mary has a great point!

"Nearly all pack manufacturers neglect the child/youth market".

My hiking partner Laz has a teenage son with a 20 inch torso and a 28 inch waist.

Try finding a pack off the shelf that has a large torso, thickly padded shoulder straps and an extra small padded hip belt.

With those measurements in mind it isn't hard to understand why he needs thickly padded shoulder straps and a padded hip belt. "Hoss" as we call him has none of his own "padding". ;-)

Modular sizing of torso, volume and hip belts would be a definite plus.

Party On,

Newton

Lawson – nice looking pack. My comments (based on over 35 years of making my own packs):
1) Hipbelt could be narrower and probably better. On my lightest packs I use a 3” wide belt; 4” is deluxe.
2) Shoulder straps – you could taper more at the end. Looking at your photo, if you stick with the width you have at the point where the bartack is about midway, and taper so they are just a little wider than the strap at the end, you will lose nothing in terms of comfort and save a little weight. ¼” foam is great – have carried up to 40 lbs in my light pack with ¼” foam in both shoulder straps and hipbelt.
3) Keep the contour. It does help.
4) Stick with the 1.5” hipbelt webbing. The issue is durability of the 1” buckle.
5) I would skip the QR’s and go with just a ladderloc on the compression straps. unless you reverse the configuration on one side so that you have the option of running a strap across the back when you want to.
6) I think you are right, you could shrink the back pocket some. It gets to be hard to find stuff at the bottom if you get too big.
7) To me, spacer mesh is a waste of weight. I have tied using leno mesh over reticulated fiber padding to get extra breathability, but I sweat either way, so I went back to a simple fabric back (160d cordura is my favorite).
8) Last but not least, if this baby sells, you should make the next model a slightly larger version with stays in it. That would be a hot item in my opinion, because the rest of the details you have there look good, and a light pack with stays and with the volume to handle 10-14 day food loads and/or winter gear is very hard to find. And yes, I recognize that adding stay sleeves is adding substantially to the complexity of the construction, which Is why I am not suggesting you add that option to this pack since it is smaller and will probably sell well without the stays, although the lifters will be of limited utility without stays.

looks great lawson. my question/issue is that back pocket as well. when the pack is fully loaded will that pocket be able to carry anything in it? perhaps making it more of a rectangular bottom and sides would make it more usable? i'm talking about where it attaches to the pack itself. The taper (when pack is loaded) will likely be very tight, rendering a good portion of that pocket useless. so maybe consider making it smaller (as suggested above) and rectangular coming off the pack. i personally like to store the following items in that part of my pack: tarp, rain jacket, wind shirt, hat, gloves, camera. so i need some volume there. anyway, just another person's ideas.