Ursack closer to being allowed in Yosemite?

I've been a few places without a decent hang tree in sight. I'd hate to have to hike all over the hillside, looking for a limb after a hard day and all I want to do is relax, fish or whatever. I don't like having to carry a canister, but that's the way it is to protect wildlife. Besides, my luck, I'd forget something and have to go retrieve it.
Duane

"Its just not tne weight of the cannister, the cannister also requires me to carry a bigger/heavier backpack."

So you made the decision to buy something so small that you can't fit anything else in it in the event of the unforeseen. Thats on you. I carry a normal persons backpack so I have no problems. As I've stated, I'm all for UL when its practical, but some of you folks take things to an unhealthy extreme.

Posted yesterday at http://www.ursack.com/ursack-update.htm
"Ursack will not be tested in time for approval for this summer's backpacking season"

I have very recently been in contact with the IGBC, the group responsible for testing and there is no hold on testing of new hard containers. What they don't have is a protocol in place for testing soft containers.

The Ursack failed in live tests because the test bear poked five tiny holes in it. Think about it. A bear gets to chew away on a good smelling sack and its saliva gets mixed in with your favorite trail bars, peanut butter tubes, and MH spaghetti. I have a dog that would gnaw on something like that for hours. From the bear's perspective it got the food. I'm sure the bear would be all excited next time it found a bright yellow chili-pop dangling from a tree. And from the hiker's perspective, the oatmeal-milk-coffee-beefstick-cheese paste is the new dinner seasoning.

I would really love a soft, lightweight Ursack style solution, but if it doesn't work, and by that I mean the bears aren't trained not to bother, it doesn't work.

I don't think there is a specific requirement, but not 100% sure about that. I used a pair of Ursacks with OP liners last year. There were numerous spots without good trees to hang from, so Ursack or canister is a good idea. There are grizz. I would lay the Ursacks on the ground, tied off to each other around the biggest heaviest boulder that would serve. Never got bothered by any critters over ten days, probably due to the OP sacks as much as anything.

Edit: OOPS, I posted an almost identical post three months ago! Sorry for the senior moment, but will leave the bare outline for Robert and for others who don't want to go back in this very long thread!

The Wind Rivers (both sides) are under a Food Storage Order:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/btnf/recreation/?cid=fsbdev3_063588
Requires that your food either be hung or stored in Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee approved containers.

Sketch on how to hang your food; anyone familiar with habituated bears will ROTFL:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_063303.pdf

List of IGBC-approved containers–note that neither the Wild Ideas Bearikade nor the Ursack are included:
http://www.igbconline.org/Certified_Products_list_Feb2012.pdf

As I mentioned in my earlier post, since I'll be illegal either way, I figure I might as well be illegal with the lighter option!

I'm surprised that the Bearikade isn't listed there. However, I do see that the Lighter1 canisters are now listed as "Approved Bear-Resistant Products"

I contacted the Bearikade folks about that, having found out this interesting fact a year after buying the Weekender. Their response was that they didn't see the point of getting separate approval from the IGBC after already having one from the Sierra Black Bear people. The tests, they claim, are the same. I wonder if they're still saying the same thing now that the IGBC is the only testing agency and more places in the Rockies (Rocky Mtn. and Grand Teton NPs) are requiring approved canisters?

When I went a few years ago, I was more worried about how cowboys and oil workers would handle my hiking shorts, trail runners when I had breakfast in what appeared to be the most popular cafe in town. Not a word or look. I musta looked too old to bother with. Bummer about the Bearicade, I guess I slipped thru on my trip, never saw the law.
Duane

"The tests, they claim, are the same."

But the testers are not –

Grizzlies play in a different league than the black bears.

Now that's one impressive bit of destruction. Maybe that's why I prefer to hang with black bear wimps in the Sierras.

I want my mommie!
Duane

Bummer. I gotta go buy a Bearvault I guess.

I own a Garcia, Bearikade Expedition, and a Ursack. I use the Ursack in areas where the biggest threat to my food is a raccoon. Even if a bear didn't break the Ursack, the contents would be mush. I think the Garcia is the best in terms of bear resistance, but after carrying two in my pack in Gates of the Arctic NP for 12 days, I bought the Bearikade.

Woah! What's the story with that Bearikade?

I'd like to know the story, too!

The simple explanation for the Bearikade purchase is that it weighs less than 2 Garcias. I was hiking alone & had to carry 12 days of food + keep anything that smelled in it, and it took 2 Garcias to hold it all. The bear canisters were over 6 lbs alone.

But I know that's not the story you were hoping for. So, here you go:

I did have a bear encounter on that trip. I was hoping to see wildlife on the trip. Up until day 9 I only saw prints of bear, wolf, caribou, goats, etc.

On day 9 I stopped at a stream to get some water. I was letting some electrolyte tabs dissolve as I looked back at the scenery. As I turned around, a very large black bear was walking up to me. He was much larger than any black bear I have ever seen in California. Huge bear. At first I thought "Wow, it's a bear!". He stopped a few inches from my belly button. He just stood there & stared at me. Then I was thinking "This could go really badly". We stared at each other for what seemed like a long time, but probably 20 or 30 seconds. Then I yelled "BEAR!". He didn't even blink, he just kept staring. Then I pulled out the Counter Assault Bear Spray. At that range it would take us both out. As I pulled the safety tab, he stopped staring at me & looked at the canister with an "Oh 5h.t" look on his face. He huffed and turned around and waddled away quickly. I guess he had been sprayed before.

I put my pack back on & got out of there. For the remainder of the trip I was paranoid that the bears were watching me.

Obviously your bear knew what bear spray was!

I think BenF and I are both wondering about the holes in that Bearikade in the photo in Greg's post!

Mary,

I would like to hear about it too.
I'm sure his story will be better than mine :-)

-Steve

And not just the holes, but it looks like the sidewalls are shredded too!

Greg,

As an owner of a Bearikade Expedition, I'm interested in two questions

1) What happened and where?
2) Did you communicate that to Wild Ideas? And what was their response?

Thanks,

Manfred

Manfred,

The photos are from the Grizzly Discover Center, Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee Canister Testing, about 2009 (memory fading….). I was very interested in why the Bearikade was not approved and had a difficult time getting direct answers from WildIdeas, so I went to the source – IGBC.

From them I learned that testing had taken place, and managed to indirectly acquire the posted photos. The IGBC folks were understandably concerned about outcome of the testing, and hoped that additional models would be forthcoming. My impression was that they were very interested and supportive of getting bear resistant canisters into the hands of backcounty hikers, and that they operated without an agenda or bias.

I communicated again with WildIdeas, included these photos, and was told that the canisters tested where "only prototypes", that production models would not be submitted, and that the Sierra Interagency Black Bear Group (SIBBG) testing was sufficient because "we don't do much business up there".

Wow, Greg, that's worrying to say the least. Especially since WildIdeas claims on their website that the Bearikade passed zoo tests, whatever that means. "We don't do much business up there" sounds like a huge copout.
Thanks for posting those–my dad was buying a Bearikade for grizzly country, but it looks like he should be looking at something different.

I still have my old Garcia Machine canister, maybe when I run out of space on my Bearicade, I should put more stickers on the Garcia Machine. :)
Duane

>"For the remainder of the trip I was paranoid that the bears were watching me."

Stephen, Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean the world isn't out to get you.