NeoAir XLite didn’t make it through night 1

Well if/when I need to replace my Xlite (or if it breaks), I'm getting a Ridge Rest Solar. I hope that I get at least a few years out of my Xlite, and by then I bet that there will be a new version of the Ridge Rest Solar that will be lighter and warmer. Right now at R value of 3.5 and 540g is pretty good (especially for the price too, stacked next the Xlite), and you could trim it to 3/4 or 2/3 if you wanted to save on weight.

I am almost tempted to call or email Thermarest and ask them how many pads have been sent back. Or has someone here done that already…?

So I was thinking for winter of using an a Neoair small for thickness/comfort for the shoulder-hip area, and a foam-based mat under/over. The two combined will mean chance of both failing is small.

As I own a Prolite 4, this is the numbers:

– warmer months, Neoair Small, R=2.5, weight = 260g and you get a full 20" at the hips unlike the Xlite small which is 17" at the hips.

– colder months, Neoair Small under a Prolite 4, upper body R=2.5+3.2=5.7 which is the same as the Xtherm, total weight is 260g+680g is 940g which is twice that of the Xtherm 430g.

I own my Prolite 4 , it influences the above. If someone didn't then of course could consider alternatives like a Ridge Rest Solar which is 260+540g=800g.

What is the wisdom of trusting a single airbed for winter? Its insulation dominates anything else you could have with you as a fallback, surely we'd be either layering systems so if one fails its survivable?

I bought an Xlite small with the above in my mind, but immediately returned as its aggressive tape is 17" at the hips, I bought a Neoair small for less cost, and more mat.

It's hard to tell from your pictures – did the material actually tear all the way through? It kind of looks like the nylon separated underneath and the membrane is still intact? Weird.

By the way, about the polycro – I wouldn't be surprised if something sharp on the ground poked through your pad but not the polycro. One time my wife and I were camped under a pine tree with _very_ sharp needles in Sequoia NP and walking around on the polycro I poked a hole in my foot from one of the needles, but it didn't actually tear the polycro. That stuff can stretch so much before it tears that it can just shape itself around a pointy object.

Possibly off the subject, but I am so happy that through countless months of crashing on friends floors when I was in my 20's, I have trained myself to think that a Z rest is made my those Tempurpedic people. No inflatable mats for me.

Paul,

Give it time… I remember being happy with the ol' blue foam pad once… but have since "graduated" onto self inflators… and now air pad. :(

I remember back in my 20s every sleepless night rolling and turning bike touring and backpacking, tried 3/8", 1/2" foam, nothing worked, my body as a side sleeper, no extra padding on me, just cannot sleep with my hip bone/shoulders digging into the ground. Then I got my first thermarest, and actually slept for the first time camping, was great, still is. Wish I could use closed cell foam, really do, simple reliable, strong, durable. But I cannot function without sleep, especially backpacking. Only time I've had a flat inflatable was when I stumbled into a cactus one tired hot sweaty day, thermarest, old big size, was strapped to outside of pack, pierced several layers. That one actually had enough padding so it wasn't freezing though, but it took all the patches to make it work.

Also had that same one in storage, had never leaked since then, but cat found it and liked walking across it, so got tons of holes, but that's the only actual flats I've had with these.

But I really clean my spots before putting down the ground sheet, I use the ground sheet to find the sharp thingies, that's actually one of the advantages of using one, it's very easy to feel them when you pass your hand over it, remove them until there aren't any.

Haven't done as much stuff as Bob G probably has, but haven't had any issues with thermarest.

Got a neoair, and I definitely would not go lighter material than it uses, you can' t make magic happen with materials, at some point things are just too light. Plus buying the first year beta test product is never a good idea unles you like being the person to find the problems that will get fixed on the next major release version. I dont' like that process, got tire dof it years ago from doing software stuff, now I'm happy to let others suffer and benefit from their early adopter experiences.

I am using with both the thermarest prolight and neor air always placed ontop of 1/8 or 3/16 closed cell foam though, I don't trust that thin material at all, got a gossamer gear pad to put under it, just weighs a few ounces. When I compare the original thermarest 1.5", tough, durable, unless you subject it to cactii and cats, the light 1" one they did after, both the green topped ones, with the prolite and the neoair it's totally obvious the new stuff is going to be weaker, so I treat it that way. The closed cell thing is a great sit pad, crash out and look at sun/stars mat too, and makes a good backpack foam frame, plus adding some r value, very multiuse, that seems a good way to go, I'm happy with it.

I'd be careful about jumping on the Xlite fabric as being 'too fragile'. My understanding is that the Xlite uses virtually the same 30D nylon as the NeoAir. Exped actually uses nylon that's even lighter (20D) with no real problems.

As far as I can tell, the bulk of the incidents about leaky Xlite's are due to construction problems (ie. not properly sealed) and not because the actual fabric is tearing. In this case, obviously the actual fabric did tear, but so far it's just one incident.

There seems to be some construction challenges at Thermarest to get these pads totally sealed, which I'm sure they'll get worked out eventually. At this point, I really doubt the fabric is going to be significantly less durable than the NeoAir or the lighter weight Exped pads (ie. Synmat UL7).

I have so far spent a around 7 nights on my recent neoair xlite and have been fine with it so far. No leaks/tears for me here. I did buy it from REI just in case it did develop a problem though for insurance.

Dan, what about a mat which has two valves, two independent air-tight areas? Would reduce air-flow so warmer, and the inner airtight area only needs to be tough enough for internal failures? Would then just half in thickness in event of failure, but all the reflective layers still there?

Perfect resolution?

Should I patent this idea?

Yes that's it! Then you could avoid carrying a backup 1/8 CCF pad. It would require tons of testing but the way you describe it, sure makes it sound like the future of air mats!

It sure would be cool to get some of that heat sealable nylon and start experimenting. I suppose I'll have to wait till I get back home in august and get a job though :(

could have 1-way valve for blowing , an internal one-way valve to then blow up the 2nd mat glued together and a 1-way valve the other side for deflating. So you puff at 1 valve and both chambers fill and then release the other valve for both chambers to deflate.

Hey, could even have 1-way valve with eVent to let the mat breathe to keep mold down but that's not as much a concern.