Feb 23, 2012 at 9:15 am #1286086
The other thread re drybags got me looking more closely…
How can it be that the GG Uberlights are lighter (per the same volume) than the zpacks and the MLDs AND THEY HAVE eVent in the bottom??
7L GG = 15g (taped)
6L MLD = 18g (taped)
5.6L Zpacks = 18g (untaped/unsealed)
Is it a different thickness of CF?Feb 23, 2012 at 10:03 am #1843527
Zpacks uses a thick Cuben for their dry bags. It's listed on their site. Joe also uses velcro for the enclosure that may add some grams. I've got one on order for my EE quilt that will be here next week. I like the Zpacks design the best.
From the Zpacks website: Constructed from black 1.0 oz/sqyd Cuben Fiber material. By comparison our regular stuff sacks are made from thinner .51 oz/sqyd (Cuben) material.
Don't forget you have to seam seal the Zpacks dry bags…Feb 23, 2012 at 10:13 am #1843533
so yo are saying that Granitegear – which is a more wide spread mass market mfg, used such a thin CF that even with the eVent bottom its 7L is lighter than the smaller Zpacks and MLD?…what did they use..0.33osy? that seems extreme.
Re the zpacks – why do you like it the most? what use does the velcro have there?…if anything it creates some separation btw the sides and will let water creep in even after its folded…Feb 23, 2012 at 10:22 am #1843545
makes it easier to get the top lined up before rolling. Doesn't add to or detract from the seal, which is created by the several rolls. Careful use makes velcro unnecessary. I have both MLD and zpacks drybags. All good.Feb 23, 2012 at 10:26 am #1843548
Velcro – It's merely a matter of personal preference. If I break a buckle on a trip (and I have before), I'll still be able to close the bag, albeit in a slightly less waterproof fashion. I have a 5' tall 7 year old with very large feet who, on occasion, steps on things… And, I wanted the thicker Cuben bag for my quilt. Again, personal preference, not based on a scientific study.
Can't comment on the Cuben thickness of the other manufacturers.Feb 23, 2012 at 10:50 am #1843567
I did some quick calculations based off the given dimensions of the bags. Since Zpacks is basically an envelope and GG uses more of a box shape, for fabric area I get:
.33sqft @ standard .74oz/sqft cuben
.31sqft @ heavier 1.0oz/sqft cuben
So with some unit conversions and dimensional analysis we get an estimation of:
7.02 grams fabric for GG and 8.73 grams fabric for Zpacks. Take into account same buckle weight, thread weighs more than tape, and addition of velcro it's not hard for the 1.7g difference to grow to about 3grams.
That said we all just put in a lot of effort over 3 grams. For perspective if you forgot to take a penny out of your pocket on a hike, that's 2.5 grams of added weight…Feb 23, 2012 at 10:55 am #1843574
@traumaheadLocale: Cen Cal
IIRC the black CF can rub off. Anyone have a problem with the bags?Feb 23, 2012 at 9:05 pm #1843930
mld and zpacks switched to heavier cuben, cause some people had their 0.74 cuben sacks failing.
usually holes appeared or the fabric started to look like here
we are just talking about a few grams, so go for the heavier stuff imhoFeb 23, 2012 at 10:01 pm #1843958
Joe's black cuben/nylon hybrid material rubs off a bit (due to the dyeing process). Black cuben (as used in Zpacks dry bags) does not have this problem.Feb 23, 2012 at 10:05 pm #1843960
GG makes cuben drybags that are all cuben, and then other ones that have the eVent bottoms. I've used the all cuben ones quite a bit. They'll hold up for a long time as long as you're not really cramming something in there (ie. a sleeping bag that barely fits). If you really cram stuff in then slowly the adhesive slips a bit and eventually a seam can come open. It happened to my wife.
The thicker variants of cuben aren't that much heavier and they're a lot more resistant to developing pin holes, so if you're really looking for a waterproof bag then get those. The lighter GG bags are good if you need a really light roll top bag that is going to be 95% waterproof but after a few months you won't really want to submerge it.
Lawson (LawsonEquipment.com) makes some awesome cuben dry bags too.Feb 24, 2012 at 5:04 am #1844018
I just received a cuben fiber dry sack (and some other gear) from Lukes Ultralite, and it seems like a quality piece of kit. It also has bonded seams so no extra seam sealing required. Here is a link – http://lukesultralite.com/node/5Feb 24, 2012 at 9:47 am #1844124
I've owned the Zpacks, GG, and Lawson's. Lawson's is the best I have used so far. Zpacks has some nice features, but seam sealing a dry bag is silly to me. Luke's design above is similar to Lawson's except with lighter cuben. I prefer the .18 stuff for reasons already stated.
RyanFeb 24, 2012 at 10:56 am #1844160
Does Lawson still make/sell the drybags? They're not on his website. I need some for an upcoming canyoneering trip.Feb 24, 2012 at 1:00 pm #1844242
Lawson is on hiatus selling cuben bags. May sell in the future though…Feb 24, 2012 at 1:13 pm #1844250
@breaktheshoalLocale: West of the Mississippi
I just ordered a Rev X this morning and was curious what size stuff sack you went with for your quilt? Not sure if I actually read this in a thread or not, but I could've sworn that Tim said that the Medium-Plus size would work best.
Thanks!Feb 24, 2012 at 1:20 pm #1844253
@eugeneiusLocale: Nuevo Mexico
Seam sealing a drybag? Not a drybag IMO, unless you happen to get every possible stitch hole w/sealant.
Lawson makes a stellar drybag, best cuben drybag IMO, and he definitely should add those to his regular stock.Feb 24, 2012 at 1:25 pm #1844255
+1 for Lawson's drybags. My wife and I got the largest one that we use as a pack liner on rafting trips. It fit perfectly in my Talon 44 and was really easy to use. Some drybags have a stiff piece of plastic along one side of the opening, I think to facilitate rolling the top down. Lawson's bags only have a strip of flexible nylon webbing, which I prefer because its actually easier to use. That stiff plastic stuff can get deformed and you're always working with a stiff curve.Feb 24, 2012 at 1:30 pm #1844257
@tracedefLocale: Southern California
All of the bags / dry bags I've gotten from MLD are pretty insane craftsmanship / glued seams, so no sealing necessary ……very nice. Have some Zpacks on the way as well so can't compare to those yet …Feb 24, 2012 at 4:51 pm #1844380
@pdcolelli42Locale: AT, follow@ www.thruperspective.com
I have had the MLD dry sacks and picked them because of the taping method. They are already mostly waterproof because of that, no seam sealing required. They will also hold water as is. When you roll them down you have to make sure you squeeze the air out first otherwise it has nowhere to go.
My friend has zpacks dry sacks and he has yet to seam seal them so the air just squeezes out of the seams. Once their sealed though I assume that won't happen.Feb 24, 2012 at 8:54 pm #1844505
I'll give my opinion when my Zpacks Medium stuff sack arrives. It Depends on which quilt you went with, mine is an EE wide Reg, 40 deg. I think it can fit into a medium. I'll post my results and opinion next week.
DanFeb 25, 2012 at 6:43 pm #1844895
I got my 40 deg EE quilt properly stuffed in my Zpacks Medium stuff sack. However, I recommend the MEDIUM PLUS to give yourself a touch more room and less effort getting it into the stuff sack.Feb 27, 2012 at 9:17 am #1845541
@breaktheshoalLocale: West of the Mississippi
Thanks for the feedback. I ordered a 6' Wide Reg, 40 degree as well so I think I'll go with the Medium-Plus… How are you liking the quilt? Having never used one before I thought the Rev X was at a price point where I could afford to roll the dice. Judging by the comments in Gear Deals I think I'm in for a treat, but was curious how you're liking it.
Thanks again!May 26, 2013 at 9:21 pm #1990012
"velcro on 02/23/2012 11:22:17 MST
makes it easier to get the top lined up before rolling. Doesn't add to or detract from the seal, which is created by the several rolls. Careful use makes velcro unnecessary. I have both MLD and zpacks drybags. All good."
I beg to differ. The Velcro absolutely detracts from the seam seal. Last year I used all sea to summit ultra sil-nylon dry bags: there is a curved peace of plastic inside one side of the top and nothing but fabric on the other. This year I used all ZPacks dry bags (all different sizes including the Blast food bag) except for one of the old sea to summit bags. Whatever air you don't push out of the sea to summit bags, once you roll the top twice, your stuck with. i.e. it seals completely. Not so with the ZPacks dry bags. It does not matter if you have rolled the top 10 times; if there is extra air in the bag just squeeze it an the air escapes. The air comes out the sides on top where the Velcro fastens together.May 27, 2013 at 12:44 am #1990034
I have an Enlightened Equipment RevX 20 degree long extra wide and it fits in the Zpacks medium+ dry bag with a ton of room to spare, I think it would fit fine in the medium.May 27, 2013 at 1:08 am #1990036
@jephotoLocale: New Zealand
My experience with Zpacks dry bags is the same as Johns. I wouldn't trust them for full submersion and use sea summit ultra sil bags most of the time.
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