Mid-layer jacket advice

Do you want an active layer or something warm for in camp?

For me, a light base layer with a shell is plenty warm down to freezing or below when active. If you want something super burly, then avoid the 4oz windshells – perhaps a sturdy hardshell, or even a softshell (e.g. Patagonia Simple Guide, Rab Boreas). I don't know if the Wild Things wind jacket at 8oz is burly enough to withstand the type of brush you encounter and how aggressive your dogs are to your gear.

Hi Stephan, thanks for the suggestion. I'm more looking for something for around camp. When I'm active and hiking the base layer and shell are plenty for me as well.

Well if this is just for around camp than a down or synthetic puffy may be nice. For the weight they're considerably warmer. For Down I would suggest a Montbell UL Inner (hooded is my preference for noticeable warmth gains but up to you). Material is fairly wind resistant and fairly warm for 9 oz. May need REI to special order it though (which they usually will do) MB also fits snug FYI.

For a synthetic the arcteryx atom is carried by REI and pretty warm. The atom uses coreloft which is almost as warm as Primaloft One. Climbers love the Atom and they tend to abuse their gear so should stand up to normal wear and tear if you aren't careless. Packs a lot smaller than any fleece. You can also grab a patagonia nano/micro puff, which depending on your build may fit better.

What kind of temperatures do you need this piece for?

Would your Denali be warm enough when layered under your rain shell?

Any of the puffy jackets will be warmer, more compressible, and lighter, but you give up dog-proofness as a nail can rip through the shell and ruin the piece. You'll want to layer your rain shell over it.

Dustin, thanks for the suggestion on the Atom. People sure seem to like it (I read nothing but good reviews). I've never been a big fan of hoods on anything except parkas, but it might be worth it.

Stephan, The Denali is warm enough under my parka (Goretex ECWCS military parka). The warmth isn't the problem (aside from winds or breeze). It's more an issue of how bulky, heavy, and succeptible to collecting things it is.

As for temps, I hike in the Sierras, at elevations from 8k-11k feet, mostly the shoulder seasons (I believe it's called). I prefer not to go mid-summer when the bugs are out. I've never been backpacking in the dead of winter, but I may actually give it a shot next month for a short 3-dayer.

The clothing item you are describing is a softshell jacket.

Since you say your fleece is too warm around camp, a softshell will do nicely. Most won't be as warm as your fleece.

Many forms of softshell offer almost complete wind resistance. Since you won't be using it while on the move, I would recommend you get one with the best wind resistance. You will sacrafice breathability – but this won't be a problem for your use.

Not sure about weight. Probably won't be too much difference. Fleece is pretty lightweight, but sounds like your fleece (I'm not familiar with the model offhand) is quite heavy duty.

As for the velcro comparison with respect to pet fur and shrubbery, the soft shell will fare much better, although you do contradict yourself a little bit on how you stated this piece wouldn't be used while hiking.

Depending on the jacket, the softshell will likely be more compactable.

I don't think a puffy insulation piece is at all what you're looking for.

Thanks Nathan. I've heard the term "softshell" but didn't know exactly what it was referring to. For uses, I realize how it sounds contradictory, but I try not to have absolutes when it comes to gear.

For example, I'm warm enough when I hike (even in fairly cold weather) that I typically just wear a long sleeve T-shirt. When it gets windy or rainy/ snowy, I throw my parka on over the T-shirt. So the majority of the time I use a middle layer (the Denali at this point), is around camp. However, once I set up my camp, I enjoy sort of "wandering" around the area looking for cool things to see or photo ops. At this slower pace (and without the pack) I'm not staying warm enough for just the T-shirt, but the parka is often overkill. Hence the need for something a little less like velcro. Does that make a bit more sense?

Makes sense. If you're around a size medium and want to cover shipping I can send you a nice EMS full zip softshell to try out and see if it works for you. It's not the most high-end softshell out there but would give you an idea of what they're all about. The nice thing about many softshells too is that they're DWR coated in a lot of cases so they can be used as your outer layer in more conditions than fleece (both wind and water resistance). They won't breath as well as your fleece, but again it sounds like it would only be used for moderate activity. the full zip can help ventilate too.

Nate

Wow, I really appreciate the offer Nate! Unfortunately I'm more of a large than a medium. But at least now I have an idea of what to look at. I checked out some softshells on REI's website and they do seem to be a little more in line with what I'm looking for than the insultated jackets like down, etc. I think you're right that a softshell is what I'm looking for.

Most softshells will be heavier than your fleece, less warm, more bulky, but offer better wind resistance.

Does that sound like what you're looking for?

The durability part throws a wrench into all this. For garments to be warm and light (packable), you need a lofted pattern but durability usually doesn't accompany this. Wild Things would be worth looking into – their Insulight or even windproof fleece options will both be extra burly.

I think the big problem with your Denali is the design. A good fleece fixes most of your problems (but will still collect things). Luckily, fleece holds up well to frequent washings.

I see your point Stephan. It looks like either way, I'm making a compromise. I've got to decide which feature is higher on my priority list, packed size and weight or durability and wind resistance. At this point I'm leaning towards durability and wind protection (since those are my two biggest gripes with the Denali. By the way, when I say durability I'm more referring to protection from the environment (dogs and brush), because in truth, my Denali jackets (I've owned 2 now), have held up very well over the years.

It is very bulky in the pack, but it sounds like a softshell might not be any better in that regard. On the other hand, my new pack is going to be close to double the cubic inches of my current pack (I've been strapping gear all over the outside). So the space situation inside the pack will definitely be improving. After checking out various softshells online, I've got to say, they really are close to what I was envisioning when I decided I'd like a replacement.

Well, I ordered a softshell today. I went to REI to check out sizing and jacket options. After looking at both softshells and insulated jackets, I decided a softshell is what I want. The one I liked the most is the Arc'teryx, but the model I prefer they didn't have in stock. So I ordered the "Bravo" online. It's basically their law enforcement/ military version of the "Gamma SV". I also got a pretty nice discount on it. Now just the wait… :) Thanks again for the suggestions and input.

You'll be pleased with pretty much any arc'teryx product. Often times they are overpriced, but that's usually the only downside. I have a Gamma MX and wear it pretty much 6 months of the year daily (and I live in a hot desert). The SV is going to be a bit burlier and warmer but that should be perfect for the Sierras (my MX without hood is thin for our coldest nights in the low 40s and high 30s).

I've had several Arcteryx pieces, and although i've never paid retail for them, they are all worth their weight in gold. The Alpha LT/SV are awesome shells, and their Atom series is probably the best mid layer they make.

You're going to love the Gamma SV, and will probably find (depending on the use/climate) that it will replace your shell.