If you could only have one pack Part 2

Maybe annual BPL cage fights should be on the menu? Winner gets a life time membership and cuben underwear.

But….I would not want to be in a cage with you Dave – maybe if we were the same age……..will have to have age divisions I guess.

:>)

The Ultra Light Adventure Equipment Camino cost $200.00 with sizes to fit 15" to 24"
torso lengths and waist belts to fit 26" to 42" waists.

Granite Gear will release the Aji 50 in September. The cost will be $219.00 with sizes to fit from 14" to 22" torsos and waist belts to fit 26" to 42" waists.

"OK – back to work – have to photograph one of those stinkin panel loaders!"

You forgot and make me a plate.

;>) It's smelling pretty darn good. I left the Cabbage out and replaced it with Cauliflower this time.

"In regards to these $800 packs….um why? Is it made of helium that helps an 80lb pack feel like a balloon on your back? Does it stop bullets? I don't see why anyone in their right mind would spend $800 on a backpack.

Oh and for $800, the customer service and warranty better be no questions asked."

It shouldn't take much effort to figure this one out. The cost is partly due to being so well built that it will last more or less forever, partly because it's custom-made, and partly because of the materials, like full Dyneema… which added $450 to mine.

Dan's service was very good throughout — and it ended up taking me six months to order my pack, during which time I was trekking around with one of his demo packs.

Was it worth $1200? Well, yes. It's been around 4 years now, and it's been pretty much my only expedition pack. It's carried my survival gear along with my photography gear, and it enables me to carry 60+ pounds comfortably. it was still tough going, and had a lot to do with inexperience on my part, but at least I know now that I can carry the survival gear I need AND still carry a large format camera… with room left over to add extra stuff, like crampons and climbing gear. Admittedly, I'll end up back up to 60-80 pounds when I start adding climbing gear, but since photography enables me to get out more, and this pack enables me to bring my camera of choice, yes it's worth it.

That pack was one of the few good things about working for amazon… they treat their employees like shiite, but they pay well.

David Ure,
My experience working with Dan was actually underwhelming. I went to meet him, because I was pretty much a newbie and didn't know how to measure myself, let alone how to fit a pack. He made it very easy, by taking the measurements he needed himself. :)

He also made the ordering process easy. When he asked me about features that I wanted, he basically went through the list and gave me some pros and cons for each. He also made some suggestions aimed specifically at photography, like how to attach a tripod to the pack. He's a bit gruff, but he does take care of his customers.

"Maybe annual BPL cage fights should be on the menu? Winner gets a life time membership and cuben underwear."

Tempting ;)

If I could only have one pack, it would be one of the kirafu ultralights.

I kind of look at it this way:

1. Dan needs to feed his family — like we all have to do. The Jansport and Osprey's of the world can keep prices lower by spreading the cost/margin across multitudes of packs and other products. Dan, a specialized, "boutique" gear maker can't do that. If you sell relatively fewer packs but still need to make a decent living, then you will have to price each pack higher.

2. If you need the highest quality/performance, then suck up and pay for it. Volume (economies of scale) aside, Dan's packs most likely cost more in materials and workmanship than mass manufactured packs.

3. Or lighten your load appropriately so you don't need to own (and pay for) a fantastic gear-hauler of a pack in order to have an enjoyable hike. There are lots of pretty darn good packs at pretty darn good prices.

Thanks Ben. ;>) There are economies to everything. What I end up producing is actually pretty cheaply priced.

"Sometimes the world need alternatives besides just price."
" I doubt you have a remote clue as to what goes into these packs."

I agree, Dan. While my own relatively light gear weight precludes the need for the highest performance load hauler, there are others (e.g. winter hikes, long trips, etc.) who do — and having options is a very good thing. The last thing we want is to have everything commoditized or Wal Martized. Imagine how dull and limiting that would be!

And yes, I also agree that most all of us who are not actually in the business won't have any clear sense of what's involved in designing, building and selling packs (or whatever else). My view is that the money will be well spent — for those who have the need. Having said that, depending on hiking style, locales, etc. — there are also ways of minimizing or even eliminating the need for load haulers. And of course, it's one major reason why many of us hang out here, exchanging info and views…

If I could only have one pack…it would be this:

http://www.boyscouttrail.com/content/recipe/beef_pot_roast-1292.asp

Dan:

I specifically mentioned the need for load haulers. We agree that choice is a good thing, do we not? I am really at a loss why you would interpret my posts as saying that load haulers can be eliminated???

Couple more thoughts…

1. The nature of a backpackinglight forum — there will always be a more emphasis on finding ways to reduce weight — and less emphasis on finding the meanest/baddest pack to haul everything you've got.

2. That DOES NOT mean there is no place for load haulers. Of course there is, and always will be. But we do like the chew the curd on lightweight backpacking.

3. You really need to stop treating every post as a personal attack on you or your products.

All I am really saying up above are that:

1. There are choices and options.
2. For those who NEED a load hauler, McHale's are worth the money.

Why you would pick a fight on even this is beyond me.

Just saw your edited post. OK, I'll click over for a look see.

http://momscrazycooking.blogspot.com/2011/03/crock-pot-beef-pot-roast-gluten-free.html

ahhhh, Dan,

just incase you missed the first line in my last post here, I respect your packs. I understand that you are a fully custom builder and that you want someone to call you so that you can work with them to get great results. From what I've read, that is the result. People don't give rave reviews for nothing.

It seems like you were hinting at my "rookie-ness" or that I don't go backpacking. It shouldn't really matter, right? I love being outside as I'm sure you do.

They do seem "expensive" compared to other offerings. But something like a LBP 34 could be the last pack you ever buy and handle just about any trip you will take. When you consider than many folks here have a favorite pack for maybe a year, then it is a new favorite pack the next year, all those packs add up in terms of dollars. So if one were to save their money and buy one pack that does it all, it would be cheaper in the long run. Unfortunately, I went through many UL packs before getting a McHale. Most of UL packs were not comfortable when fully loaded with food and water, and I shredded a couple of UL packs too. None of that happens with a McHale.

One really needs to get one in hand and then compare the construction against other packs. Turn it inside out and closely check the sewing and seams. The quality is obvious, even for someone like me who has never sewn anything.

I have a LBP 36, which means the circumference is 36". I have carried up to 3 gallons of water in it. This is the only pack I have used that I do not think about when hiking… that is I don't worry about it getting damage from shrubs, bushes, rocks, sand etc. I never have had a single sore spot on the hips or shoulders, no matter how much I load it up. It handles a large bear canister easily; either inside the pack or using the special summit lid that is designed to carry a canister. It has been on planes as checked in luggage and as a carry one. I don't worry about the baggage apes damaging it. It has been used on long trips and many over nighters and even day hikes. With all the paring down of my other gear, it is a little large now for over nighters (even with a 3 lb pack, I can easily get my base weight down to 6 lbs). So I am getting a Bump for those super light trips, but could easily get by with the LBP. Since my wife and I are DINKS, I can afford the luxury of a 2nd McHale.

Regarding carry on rules. In the past 13 years I have probably been on close to 1,000 airplane flights and have never seen any airline or TSA official measure luggage or put it into one of those boxes at the airport. If it fits in the scanning machine you can carry it to the gate. On small commuter flights the gate agent may have you check it at the gate, which is okay because I have never lost luggage at a gate check in. Regular check in is another story.

Panel loaders, in my opinion, offer too many chances of problems. Possible zipper failures or leaks. I have owned a few and do not care for them.

My McHale is easily the best and most comfortable pack I have ever owned. Of the top of my head, since the mid 1960s I have owned
– Boy Scout Antelope (external)
– Kelty D4 (external)
– Kelty Serac (external)
– Kelty Serac Expedition (external)

The Kelty D4 was my main pack from 1971 – 2005. The other Keltys were for longer trips in winter or when I needed to carry up to 4 gallons of water in the Desert during this same time period.

Many of the internal packs I did not keep long, because they didn't work out. Many of those I gave away to folks who could not afford a pack. If I had known about McHale packs in 1985, I could have bought one and saved at least $800 on the excess pack consumption and the pack would still be in used today.

My LBP is about 39L stripped down and with the 6 side compression straps you can snug down a fairly low volume of gear. With all options it can handle 79L easily. Plus with larger loads, the optional P&G set up has the best load lifter set-up I have ever seen, the by-pass harness.

This is why you see that so many people are McHale advocates, not just satisfied owners. Something I have not seen with any other pack out there. Here are a few pictures compared to the popular Mariposa plus (I have posted them before).

Both packs without filling up the extension collars.

Same as above but with Summit Lid on the McHale.

Both packs fully loaded. The McHale has a full Dyneema Kanagroo pocket versus the mesh, which is a potential weak point. The McHale has a summit lid that can double as a fanny pack. The dual ladders and bottom webbing allows you to attach things like snowshoes, tents, pads, etc. Also, the best load lifters in the industry.

Optional lid with bear canister set-up.

Bear canister secured.

This is what the McHale looked like when I got home from a winter trip. I stuffed my gloves between the snow shoes at the top and just clipped the crampons to the snowshoes. You can see the cut Gatoraide bottle in the left pocket where I normally carried them if not in use. This trip I carried a Scarp 1, snowshoes, etc.

Same trip as above with all options… By-pass harness and optional pockets.

Winter camp.

Multi-day trip in desert with sub 10lb base. Also carried about 15 lbs of food and water at beginning of trip.

All of this may look like heavy hauler trips, but I do my share of really light backpacking. Here is a 3 day 60 mile trip with a 9,000 foot elevation gain on day 1. Temps ranged from freezing to 106 F. Base weight was under 5 lbs, and with food and one gallon of water, total pack weight was around 17 lbs. At this point I contacted Dan.

Multi-day trip with FSO weight (excluding food and water) of sub 5 lbs. Included shelter and rain gear. This was also an experiment with a Cuben pack to see if I wanted a Cuben McHale Bump.

Long story short. McHales can be the one-pack-does it all. If you dollar cost average the pack over 10, 20 or even 30 years it is one of the cheapest packs on the market. And it is probably the only one that can last 30 years. And I found Dan to be extremely easy to work with, actually a real pleasure. My wife paid for the Bump (in the process of being made now) as a birthday present. She told me that she thinks I wanted another one of his packs so I can talk to him on the phone :)

Nick, I hadn't seen those pictures before. Thanks for posting them.

Thanks, Nick. I like the side by side shots. The McHale in that very last picture makes that other pack look extremely uncomfortable and rather prickly.

Thanks Nick for such a comprehensive review of your customer and pack experiences with Mchale. Makes me want one! My only question would be do you miss the mesh netting that a lot of ultra light packs have on the back for easy storage and drying? I see on their website that they offer something called a kangaroo pocket and I am assuming it is for the same purpose but more durable?

Don't believe it…

Consider the following points, in no particular order:

1. Even if a McHale pack lasts a lifetime (I haven't heard otherwise anywhere), it won't be your last pack since you, the consumer, don't know what you want. In other words, next year you'll want a new color, fabric, feature, size, etc. As an example, I believe Nick bought his McHale under the "last pack you'll ever buy" assumption, and is now on his second.

2. Furthermore, you can not trust people who spend their own money on gear to give a proper review; they are too biased towards justifying their purchase.

3. Nick Gatel has Jedi powers which allow him "conjure" a two page post in under 10 seconds which will make you believe whatever he writes. I have found that viewing his posts through polarized lenses negates this effect.

Personally I have been using a Vapor Trail for over the past 6 years. I keep trying to find a better pack for me being tall and carrying over 12 pounds and I haven't yet. The only thing that could be better about it is a big mesh pocket on the back but I could always sew that on. The thing is just comfortable and a good buy at $80. Too bad they don't make it anymore.

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1. Even if a McHale pack lasts a lifetime (I haven't heard otherwise anywhere), it won't be your last pack since you, the consumer, don't know what you want. In other words, next year you'll want a new color, fabric, feature, size, etc.

This may apply to people who "need" the new iPhone, but coming from a family that didn't have a lot, that bought what we could afford, took care of it, and used it until it absolutely fell apart, that flighty consumer stuff doesn't hold water.

2. Furthermore, you can not trust people who spend their own money on gear to give a proper review; they are too biased towards justifying their purchase.

Oh, I dunno about this either. If I don't think I got my money's worth, I'm not afraid to say so. In fact I'm more likely to say so when it's my money that's been spent, and there's no fear of offending someone who gave me a well-intentioned gift.

A big +1 to the Vapor Trail for 20-25 lb loads. Still using it 8 years later, still only cost $75 (barely) used.

"You really need to stop treating every post as a personal attack on you or your products."

Also +1.