Someone please explain button compasses

"So seriously, what good is a button compass?"

As you say, most of the time when you have sun and visibility, you put that together with your "situational awareness" and you know which way to go, or which way is north.

However, I have been in many situations when I had no sun, like, after sunset. I have been in many cloudy/foggy situations when I could see no landmarks or trails, and I could not find any moss on the north side of a boy scout. So, a watch is not going to do squat for you.

Any sort of compass can be helpful for those difficult situations. Most button compasses have no magnetic declination adjustment, so it helps if you have a rough idea on the declination so that you know which way to fudge your button compass directions.

I'm convinced that the world is in so much trouble now because so many seem to think that if you can't learn it from a youtube video, then it isn't worth learning.

–B.G.–

"You can get a pretty good north-south position by the tie of day, season and sun position. You can also use an analog watch, or even if you had a digital watch, you could figure out where the hour hand "should" be and get north or south from there."

…unless it's cloudy, foggy, or in whiteout conditions. Without a map, a basic compass can keep you from walking in circles if you do get lost. I've read enough stories of people who get lost and end up walking for hours only to end up right where they started.

"I'm convinced that the world is in so much trouble now because so many seem to think that if you can't learn it from a youtube video, then it isn't worth learning."

What's the difference between me watching a short video, or reading it in a scout guide or some other book? I apologize for using available resources.

Anyhow, this is a good point. Cloudy conditions. Didn't quite think of that one! I've also seen where folks like to use a sewing needle with a magnetized end to float on a leaf in water. Seems a bit much at that point. Thanks for also mentioning the magnetic declination. But I guess for most cases where someone just lost the trail, but knows the general layout of the area, a simple direction will help them reach a major road. That's where the button compass comes in it would seem.

In the modern times that we are in, too many people hear the term "land navigation" and they say "There's an app for that!"

Hey, you pop up a little program that turns your smart phone into a GPS receiver, and then clickity clickity and you are found. Then you find out that it draws a lot of battery power. What happens if the battery runs dead? There is an app for that, too. It tells you where to go to find the nearest battery store. But, wait, it doesn't work when the battery is dead. Oh, wait. The battery did not run dead in the youtube video.

I've backpacked before with some people that couldn't navigate their way out of a paper bag. They could not even look at the noontime sun and tell which way was north.

I recommend a good land navigation class that probably does not teach with GPS except as an advanced topic. The class will cover the basics, and then it will include some lost-in-the-woods time for practice.

This is not exactly for everyone, but the US Army covers this in Basic Training and better in Advanced Infantry Training and other programs.

–B.G.–

I put one of the button compasses with a clip on the sternum strap of each of my packs. While not good for detailed navigation off trail, it does help with being aware of general direction, and is often all that's needed when I'm just hiking trails. As noted, being aware of magnetic declination is valuable!

Jonathan: Props to you for educating yourself (and I'll note, posting a Q here that arose from his survey of youtube vids).

In addition to night and clouds on the trail, there have been a few times I've gotten turned around in a strange city, sometimes in cloudy weather, more often at night and I know ABOUT where I am and WHICH direction I need to go if I just get my general bearings. Seems to happen more often when abroad.

Yeah, bag the needle and cork thing plus pan plus water thing. A button compass is far smaller and more useful.

The most useful compass is the one you look at BEFORE you need to. Quiz yourself every 30 minutes: Which way is North? Then check. If you need to reverse in cloudy weather, you'll have a much better sense of the your surrounding. And test other methods: snow on slopes, moss on trees, tree growth due to prevailing winds, etc. Not only does it help your navigation skills, but it is interesting to read and interpret the country around you.

"I recommend a good land navigation class that probably does not teach with GPS except as an advanced topic. The class will cover the basics, and then it will include some lost-in-the-woods time for practice."

I agree with this 100%. I don't know of anyone with more expert or experienced than Bob when it comes to GPS, but his recommendation is that GPS is an advanced topic, not the foundation for navigation.

The problem with land navigation using a map and compass is that one can become rusty, even if you have expertise at it. I noticed that this happening to me last year, so I refreshed my knowledge and went out on a long trip with no trails and very real need for these skills. I view land navigation skills as the first essential.

You can buy the Army "Map Reading and Land Navigation" field manual (FM 21-26) pretty cheap.

Or the Army will pay you to learn the skills with a nominal enlistment commitment :)

http://www.cavalrypilot.com/fm21-26/toc.htm

http://www.learn-orienteering.org/old/

http://www.compassdude.com/

practice it in yr urban park till you can get it right ….

navigation solely with a smartphone gps IMO, will eventually get you … one of these days youll drop it, get it wet, itll run out of bats, the phone will die, etc … not to say you shouldnt use one, just not by itself

it kinda goes against some BPLers credo … but skills over gear anyday

edit …

i suggest watching the mythbusters episode "walk a straight line" … you can likely find it "online" (i am in no way telling you to download it illegally)

heres the aftershow

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-walk-a-straight-line/

I recently picked up a copy of Bjorn Kjellstrom's book, "Be An Expert with a Map and Compass" and am forcing myself to go through it slowly. I barely seem to have the mental bandwidth to concentrate on it right now, but it's regarded as the classic text for map and compass use.

The problem I have found with the small button compasses they are very inaccurate are just eye candy or another feature for watch bands that watch manufactures offer. For example I bought a Clip watch from Dakota watches recently and I decided to test the button compass that came with watch.
The needle was pointing and misreading north and it was really pointing south.I even sat it on the ground north was still really south so because it was so inaccurate I cut it off watch band.

I have found their very light weight small foot print basic compasses that are manufactured Brunton,Suunto that are made to sit on map or wrist that are very accurate so you can get a accurate
reading.
Terry

Hi Terry

I agree that button compasses may be not hugely accurate, but 180 degrees wrong is just not believable. But I think I understand what has happened.

> The needle was pointing and misreading north and it was really pointing south.
No, I think you are misunderstanding how to read THIS type of compass. This type of compass does not have a real needle which 'points' north. Rather, you are meant to hold the compass up in front of you and read the direction from the BACK face. Many car compasses are set up like this, and so are some marine gymballed compasses. I have one liek this in my car.

So, try again. Hold the compass up in front of you and see if facing the four cardinal directions gives you the correct reading from the back face each time.

Cheers

Hi Bob

> I'm convinced that the world is in so much trouble now because so many seem to think
> that if you can't learn it from a youtube video, then it isn't worth learning.

I would accuse you of being a grumpy reactionary old codger … except that I agree with you 100%!
(And I think you know my opinion of compass&map vs GPS…)

Cheers

You don't see their use until you need them.

I was hiking a Colorado 14er and took the wrong route down* by about 1/3rd. I knew that if I headed north I could get back on the trial back to my car. So, with my button compass on my wrist watch I was able to bushwack back to the proper trail. The button compass helped me not to drop down the mountain further where I would not have been able to find my trial.

I also used the overshoot method taught when learning the compass.

*The mountain had 4 trails to the top.

I've only truly needed a compass a few times. One of those times I didn't have one and wandered in a blowing snowstorm four hours. I knew where I was, I knew where my pack was, but kept walking in circles. Even the most basic compass would have kept me on course.

I carry a compass now.

Ah Ha! That is the goal!! But when you need one, one needs to know how to use it and use it well.

"I'm convinced that the world is in so much trouble now because so many seem to think that if you can't learn it from a youtube video, then it isn't worth learning."

21st century natural selection?

Roger, Bob's not a cranky old codger seeing as I agree 100% myself and I'm about as young as you can get that remembers a world before the internet (well more specifically before Google and Wikipedia made the internet useful for everyone).

And Nick, you don't even have to buy the manual anymore, it's pretty easy to find as a pdf if you search "map reading and land navigation." Since it's pdf I'll probably just download it to my eReader and take that into the field with me and read it when I need it…

Also what do you more advanced navigators use for a compass? I've been using a nice folding Suunto that I bought probably 15 years ago as a kid but it's developed a large bubble unfortunately (Too many AZ summers in a garaged box I'd wager).

"cranky old codger"

Roger had used the term "grumpy reactionary old codger."

If you have to call me that, at least get the quote right.

I don't care what you call me, just call me for dinner.

–B.G.–

A military lensatic compass. No fluid in it to get bubbles fully functional temperatue range of -50 F to 150 F, very accurate, and nearly indestructible. You can get a new one for about $90 with the trtium lighting or an exact non-military, non- radioactive model for around $60 from the US military supplier, Cammenga. I had one I was issued in the 60's (oops were we supposed turn those in?). Zero problems with it, but I retired it in the 90s when I found out the Military had condemned that model due to radiation leakage (even though the tritium had gone through 2 "half-life's"). Mine weighs 5.7 oz, about the same as most GPS units.

A apologize for the misquote. Blame it on the ADHD. I'm under 30, isn't that enough qualify for speed 'scripts?

Nick, that sounds fancy but definitely out of my budget for the weight.

Depends. I just used one that fits on a watch strap has a bubble 7 years old bought in Beijing for $.50 on a 2 week tour in China to figure out WTF I was , and especially to play Chinese cheating cab Bingo in Suzhou. Flick that bubble with your kicking finger until it reads steady. I spent $1.50 or so on a Coghlans ball in the Cascades last year. Cheap insurance magic. You are nuts to do otherwise in the Unknown.

Bob, if we're going to get into semantics, I didn't appreciate the insinuation that I wouldn't consider something worth learning if it weren't on a youtube video. I simply used it as a buffer on the subject, but certainly don't consider myself fully educated on the topic from one little video. Which, honestly, what you said seemed ironic as advice posted on the internet. I think we're all here to learn something. Some folks will be able to teach more than learn, but that's life.

Thanks all for the book suggestions. I had a friend who did reconnaissance in the Army. We talked about getting a group together to do some map reading classes. Never materialized unfortunately. I'd definitely like to learn more about it.

EDIT: Oh, and Bob. The world has ALWAYS been in trouble. Only the vices and contexts change. People never change.

"reconnaissance…map reading…I'd definitely like to learn more about it."

It is difficult to know where you are, but in many places around the country, there is a sport called orienteering. The top end of that is like competitive land navigation. However, most people start at the bottom end, and it is mostly learning how to read a basic topo map. I did a bit of that years ago and found it to be fun.

At least it is more fun than reading a map while bullets fly over your head.

–B.G.–