Refilling Gas Canisters

[Hikin’ Jim]

Of course it's possible to refill backpacking type gas canisters. But what are the real risks? What are the practicalities? Is it even worth it?

Please join me as I explore Refilling Gas Canisters

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

thank you!

[Jason G]

^

[Hikin’ Jim]

Hi, John,

How's that? Happy to oblige.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Thanks!! btw, I posted on your blog a quick thought. hit me after I posted… what about being able to transfer from one of those big 500g canisters down into one of the smaller 100g canisters. Those 500g canisters are about 8 bucks, while the 100g canisters are something like 5.50 up here where I live. Person could save some serious money by buying the big 500g canisters and transferring over to the 100g canisters.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Hi, John,

The 450g threaded canisters cost $9.00 at the REI and Sport Chalet near me. The equivalent amount of butane is $2.50 (two 227g butane canisters at $1.25 each). I can save a good deal more money by refilling with butane.

There would definitely be advantages to refilling from the 450g canisters though — you'd have a "four season" blend of gas rather than the "summer" gas that I'm using for refilling. However, you'd need a different refiller than the one I'm featuring in this particular blog post. That particular refiller for whatever reason (popularity?) is roughly double (ouch) the cost of the refiller I'm using.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

So realistically the average hiker (excluding the long distance hiker who happens to be using a canister system, which is getting rare these days) could likely go a season or two and never even begin to pay off the costs involved in the little connector.

[David Thomas]

Jim: Small math error in the blog: "a gain of 21 g" after your brief refilling period should be "a gain of 41 g" (184-143=41). It's still all very clear what to do and what the precautions are.

I agree with your logic that if the fuel is much cheaper, you use your stove more. Maybe even take more hot showers on trips, which improves everyone's quality of life!

[Roger Caffin]

Hi all

Just so there are no misunderstandings here. (It's called CYA.)

BPL does not endorse the refilling of gas canisters. Anyone doing that must accept full responsibility for their actions.

A tiresome disclaimer, I agree. But we have both experts and novices reading these pages. I hope you all understand.

Cheers

[David Thomas]

John: Yeah, if you're not using your stove a lot and/or don't want to play with the adapters, just stock on store-bought canisters. The payback would take a while.

In addition to BPing trips, I've gone from white gas to butane and propane stoves for canoeing trips and family mini-BPing trips to USFS cabins where we aren't trying to save fuel.

But for me, it's maybe a point of pride as a plumber, engineer and DIYer that I can repair my car, build my house, assemble a computer, refill my stove, etc. I keep methane, butane, propane, oxygen, CO2, helium, and a few dozen liquid chemicals on hand for home projects, science demos, etc.

I've also got a variety of buildings and locations at different temperatures, with and without any occupants. I wouldn't do as much as I do if I lived in an apartment, in a city, with neighbors within a few hundred yards.

Give a man a canister and he can cook for an hour. Teach him to use an adapter and he can play with his stock of empties for years!

[Hikin’ Jim]

John:

If 110g backpacking canisters are $5.00 each, 227g butane canisters are $1.25 each, and the refiller costs $37.00, then you break even just a little past eight 110g canisters.

If for example you bought ten 110g canisters, your cost would be $50.00. The equivalent amount of butane would be $6.25. Add in the cost of the refiller, and your total for butane is $43.25. So, if you use the equivalent of ten 110g canisters but use butane, you'd save $6.75. Any refills after that result in further savings of $8.75 per 227g canister of butane purchased. Paying $1.25 for $10.00 worth of fuel is pretty good. Refilling with butane is cheap.

On the other hand, if you bought a threaded refiller, you're paying $9.00 for the $20.00 worth of fuel, roughly the equivalent of four 110g canisters.

To compare the two:
Using 100% butane is $1.25 for $10.00 worth of fuel.
Using 450g threaded canisters is $4.50 for $10.00 worth of fuel.

Butane is significantly cheaper, and the butane refiller is half the cost of the threaded refiller. Consequently, it would take a lot longer to recoup the cost of a threaded refiller.

It's late, so I hope my math is right.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Hikin’ Jim]

Small math error in the blog: "a gain of 21 g" after your brief refilling period should be "a gain of 41 g" (184-143=41). It's still all very clear what to do and what the precautions are.

Now we see why David is the engineer and Jim is the blogger. :) (Thank you, David)

I agree with your logic that if the fuel is much cheaper, you use your stove more. Maybe even take more hot showers on trips, which improves everyone's quality of life!

Especially my tent mate's. ;)

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[al b]

Wouldn't a quality stove adaptor variant (of the one in your Butane adaptor III post) be less hassle/safer than refilling?

http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/01/butane-adapters-iii-upright-canister.html

The connector looks like it could do with something to fold into the canister notch and lock it: maybe if a big brand adopted such adaptors and required such improvements…

perhaps reduce the 79g adaptor weight (seems light enough anyway)

[Ken Thompson]

Thanks, but no thanks. After all by the time I factor in fuel to get to and from the trailhead($50=last time) What is another dollar or two on a canister. I use up the partials car camping in the winter to run the lanterns and such. The empties get recycled. Easy peasy.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Hi, Ken,

Yeah, definitely not for everyone. Now that I'm married and have a family, I find that 99% of my trips are local, and of those, the vast majority are only about a half hour's drive. Of course, I live in an area where there's lots of hiking opportunities. Not everyone will be in that situation. Anyway, it works for me, but as I say, not for everyone.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Nick Gatel]

Yes, it is not for everyone and can be dangerous if one is not careful.

But the important thing to me right now is Ken's avatar. So who is running the remote control and making the viewing decisions? Ken or his friend?

[Hikin’ Jim]

Aren't they in a vehicle looking out? I suppose God then is in control of the view? ;)

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Nick Gatel]

Jim,

Upon closer look and zoom, you are correct. At first it looked like a TV. Well, you and Ken shall experience this too eventually… it is the aging process.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Already there. I tease you only because I understand it so well. :)

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Hikin’ Jim]

Wouldn't a quality stove adaptor variant (of the one in your Butane adaptor III post) be less hassle/safer than refilling?

I find that it's easier (at least for me) to do the fiddling at home rather than fiddling with an adapter in the field. Also the adapter weighs more (78g) than many stoves (MSR MicroRocket, 73g), so weight wise it doesn't appeal to me. But that equation will be different for different folks.

However, if one were out on a long distance hike, carrying the adapter would mean that one could use either type of fuel, which might be an advantage. I've seen the butane canisters in a lot of grocery stores, stores that I've never seen a BP'ing type canister in.

The connector looks like it could do with something to fold into the canister notch and lock it: maybe if a big brand adopted such adaptors and required such improvements…

Better still would be a proper stove, for example the ST-310 from Soto.

350g though. A tad on the heavy side. But it's a step in the right direction. I saw a lot of this type of stove in Japan when I was there about a year ago. The side laying butane canisters are quite a bit more popular there. They have multiple sizes, including a 100g size which I've never seen in the US.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Dustin Short]

Now the big question…

I saw that you can still find Bernzomatic PC8 Torches (i think with can) online. Is it possible to refill the PC8? Because that would then allow all that cool propane adapter stuff you talked about but without having to carry those beasts of a fuel canister.

[Hikin’ Jim]

You could refill those canisters (if you can find some). It would take a different refiller. Working with propane is a different game than working with butane. The risks are greater. I'm actually working on a post about that although I really have more just ideas and concepts. I have been practicing butane refilling for a couple of years. I haven't got that kind of experience behind propane refilling.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[David Thomas]

Jim: I've been refilling propane for years, but never butane. We're ying and yang. Or Click and Clack. Or Mutt and Jeff?

Anyway, you're welcome to shoot me your write-up if you want me to review it. I know you're not writing it for an audience like me (never do that!), but I'm happy to double-check it for you. I'm PM you my big mailbox address.

[Roger Caffin]

> for example the ST-310 from Soto.

Now that stove DOES worry me! There is no way with a stock unit to prevent the canister from getting a LOT of heat from the flames, especially with a large pot. Frightening to me. George would have been horrified.

Cheers

[al b]

The SOTO website pictures show a heat deflector above the can, and the stove.

Perhaps a bigger wider circular heat reflector could be added, it looks quite a tall stove.

Hopefully they did the sums/tests…

but its a bit heavy anyway

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