Hyperlite Mountain Gear Porter / Expedition Pack Review

[dan mchale]

Dan, the cost is not the point. Do you really think the potential difference in the cost of a pack has any bearing on the argument? Do you want me to make you a Cuben pack like the Porter Expedition for $400.00? At least I would not have to feel like I was copying somebodies design. Even the way the frame is done inside, is our alternate design, and one I have done for more than 20 years, and is like the packs Ryan has purchased from me – all of which were purchased before HMG even started up.

[Don Meredith]

Dan,

I promised myself I wouldn't join into the fray but here I am.

As I read Chris's logic, price was exactly the point as a differentiating factor. Your packs are significantly more expensive and as far as I'm aware you don't offer a cuben fiber fabric variant as an option. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm honestly not completely familiar with your line since the price has been prohibitive to me in the past. Don't read that as a knock on your line. I'm sure I'm not your target customer.

I get the argument that the daisy chain configuration isn't necessarily unique. I don't think that you can argue that your product is a fair comparison to the HMG Porter simply because of the price disparity.

More importantly to everyone being so rude in this chain step back and consider what you're trying to accomplish. If you were offended by the intro you could simply move on. If you were deeply offended maybe send a PM. The aggressive messages and pointless bickering leads to nothing constructive.

DM

[Ryan Smith]

Why is it that every thread turns into garbage these days?

Ryan

[dan mchale]

Don, what does this mean?

" I don't think that you can argue that your product is a fair comparison to the HMG Porter simply because of the price disparity."

OK, I see.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"Dan, the cost is not the point. Do you really think the potential difference in the cost of a pack has any bearing on the argument? Do you want me to make you a Cuben pack like the Porter Expedition for $400.00?"

I see….I thought you were saying your simpler packs sell for about $400, but now I understand that you're saying you don't make a pack equivalent to the Porter, but if you did then it would be around this price.

On a side note, have you ever though about making a dry bag hauler? I.e. the ULA Epic.

[Don Meredith]

Dan,

I mean that your packs are sufficiently more expensive that they can't be reasonably considered as an option for a person buying in the HMG Porter range. Additionally, you don't have a cuben fabric option.

DM

[dan mchale]

Don and Dan, I do make packs as simple as the Porter and with simplicity the price goes down and I do offer Cuben. My packs can be very simple. Have you seen what I call the Windsauk? It's even simpler than the Porter and so are may other packs I show. I have a pack posted for $399.00 that even has 2 detachable side water pockets and a top lid fanny pack. You can't say that's so much more expensive that they can't be compared.

I did not come on here to sell packs though.

Ken, thanks for the support. It's amazing that at a site where numbers mean so much, words can mean so little.

[Luke Schmidt]

NM

[dan mchale]

Imitation is not the sincerest form of flattery. Luke, I'm not going to hate you.

Luke said,

"I actually recall a comment somewhere (I think it was Ryan Jordan's blog) comparing the HMG Porter prototype to McHale packs. I don't recall the specifics but basically Ryan said he was excited about the HMG pack and that he thought it MIGHT be almost as good as a McHale pack. Personally I'd say immitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Don't you think The Porter might be almost as good as a McHale if Ryan is designing it for them? Doesn't anybody get this? Ryan takes in packs from various companies ostensibly to review and test them and then takes that knowledge to help other companies design their packs and build his reputation? Do you think it's a coincidence that the width of the Daisy Chains on the Porter is within 1/4" of mine? a 1/4" Margin of error in 12" is not much when dealing in fabric. What else is going on? Is this the sincerest form of Flattery? We know Ryan has been helping them – it's all over the net. If it's their design, they don't need him, so it is what it is because of him. But gosh, I guess it's OK because they are selling it cheap.

This is better known as Conflict of Interest.

[Luke Schmidt]

NM

[dan mchale]

It's the worst form of tribute. I hope you don't end up hating ME Luke!

[Ken Thompson]

@Dan I hope to do business with you in the near future. Dealing with you will be a pleasure.

@Chris. I wish you success in your new position here. I think we both can learn something from this thread.

[Luke Schmidt]

No I won't end up hating you Dan.

Edit – I'm cutting out some of my comments just because I don't feel like I'm helping and I don't feel like this question is something I should be involved in or that should be done on the net.

Dan and Ryan I don't know what happened but I appreciate what both of you have contributed here and I hope whatever went wrong gets fixed up appropriately.

[. .]

Well, as for the review, it was an informative mixture of subjectivity and relatively objective observation. I'm diggin'. Besides, doesn't Roger C. take the cake for coarse comments in reviews which are legitimately chocked up to personality + entertainment value?People seem to expect it and are not offended. Isn't this site about lightening up? :) I did not notice anything uncouth in the first line – it introduces a review with the accompanying expected sprinkle of editorial opinion; besides, I measure packs in ounces before I figure out how durable and comfortable they are. The latter is for the trail. Aesthetics? White+black is bad-a$$, no doubt.

[Luke Schmidt]

NM

[Hendrik Morkel]

Hei all,

I just wanted to all inform you about the cottage I just started.

The name of my cottage is McShale (Shale as in soft, finely stratified sedimentary rock that formed from consolidated mud or clay and can be split easily into fragile slabs) and it will make very durable, ultralight and unique alpine packs. I think the name represents that very well. Possible similarities with other names I dismiss.

The foundation of my basic pack design I will <s>rip off</s> <s>copy</s> imitate from some French Canadian dude, who started some environmental friendly clothing company, from the 70s (no one will know, an he makes no more packs anyway), I will just enhance and update it with a few unique details like

– Daisy Chains (the Army would calls it a MOLLE System, but I'm not the Army and my lost love's name was Daisy)
– Strong and durable materials (other packs are made of the same, but I will just claim that my fabrics are superior – If I claim that just loud and often enough some will believe it)
– Fancy colours (Think Rainbow colours, and yeah, I will mix and mis-match)
– Ridiculously expensive (I don't want to sew too many pack per week as that would limit the time I can hang out online on forums and troll around)
– Hand made to order (You don't think I would want to be away from my PC and the forums, do you? Also, somehow I need to explain those absurd prices)

To make it difficult to buy from me I am going to have a hideous website which has never heard about User Experience – it will be a utter pain to navigate and find what you're looking for. Don't bother looking at it on your smart phone or tablet, Mobile First or Responsive Web Design, I could care less.

I also plan to spend a lot of time online, insulting other companies' products, call reviewers biased and whatnot, and make myself like the most unpleasant person to do business with (customer service, forget it amigo). That is OK, because some still will buy my absurdly expensive packs, and as I rather be online than really thinking about developing something innovative (let alone be outdoors testing my packs) this makes it a win-win situation.

My first pack will be called "The Moaner™" and will be a simplistic design, though its unique feature will be a slight moaning with every item you place into the pack, and a louder moaning when carried on your back. It will be highly annoying, just like me behaviour online.

I plan to introduce further down the line another pack called "The Whiner™", and I will make sure to <s>spam</s> inform you about it on reviews of other packs. I'm <s>not</s> looking forward to do business with you, and meet you online!

[Brian Green]

Do you have any specs for The McShale Moaner™ yet, I'm curious to know how loud it wil likely get? Ha, well said. Flame responses below…

[BER —]

Wow. In a thread that has more drama than I see from my high school daughter and her friends, that was an "Ouch" Hendrik. Humorous, but kind of like pouring gasoline on the campfire…
Seems like a general trend on BPL these days.

[Diplomatic Mike]

How many gallons can The Whiner carry? I like a nice red.

[David Ure]

Hendrik – that is a nasty post. Really. Uncalled for and hasn't advanced the discussion one bit.

[dan mchale]

Looks like we got to another reviewer – the hikinginFinland.com guy – how appropriate. Talk about thin skin. He must have gotten tired of being positive all the time. Get it out man and then maybe you can talk about the real issue since the guilty guy can't really defend his actions.

I'm glad you posted though Hendrik because it lends balance to the side people usually see of you. It's always good to see how people really think.

Oh, the unbearable lightness of being a gear reviewer!

[Michael Duke]

I must say that I think that Dan's packs are different than most packs out there (in a good way). Really nice packs for sure.

It also would have been nice to have a review from a person that did not have input in the pack design. I can't read the review, as I am not a member, but it seems like a conflict of interests. Also I sure hope Chris addressed the linear strap connection point after his thread he started earlier.

Edit: Why would the HMG pack not have extended stays above the straps? That seems to really take away from the load carrying capabilities. Really limits the adjustment ability to take the pressure of the shoulders if you really want to load it down.

[John Frederick Anderson]

"Hendrik – that is a nasty post. Really. Uncalled for and hasn't advanced the discussion one bit."

+1

Shame to see this place, which was once good and fair, degenerate so much.

And to think, some of you guys pay money to behave like this.

Get a grip Hendrik, if you haven't anthing to contribute, why bother stirring it up with vitriol?

In my opinion, BPL should edit the review, which really is the source of much bad feeling, and apologise/ explain why the attitude. All Chris or Ryan have done is deflect and dodge any comments critical of the tone and content, if they've bothered to respond at all.

When I hike here in Spain, I am always preaching the UL way, and recommending BPL. Next summer season, I don't think I will recommend this place to new people.

I get more chilled info from the GG newsletter, which is all about hikes and technique, rather than ego.

Typical subculture behaviour, with emerging alternative philosophies that preach independent thinking and approach. When that which they value most becomes institutionalised, the holders of the keys to 'power/ knowledge' inflate themselves to guru status to preserve the power structure and maintain their position, at the cost of the initial philosophy itself, and group harmony and progress.

I think I'm going to limit myself to Trip Reports from now on, ironically the least active part of BPL. Says something.

Over and out, Fred.

[Nick Gatel]

Hendrik,

That post is not fair to Dan McHale, and not typical of you.

When I read the HMG review my first thought was, "that sure looks VERY similar to my McHale LBP."

I made a comment earlier in this thread after David Ure posted a picture of his McHale pack, that if he looks closely there are a lot of similarities between the long-lived McHale packs to the "new" HMG pack. Note that I did not use the word comparable. I cannot make any comments on the over quality or functionality of a HMG pack because I do not own one nor have I ever seen one. To me, looking at the HMG pictures, a McHale is sewn much better. And no one who is familiar with a McHale pack questions the quality of construction. Over the past 45 years I have owned a LOT of packs, and no one approaches McHale's quality; Period. Even the BPL reviewers questioned the seams and potential frame compression on the HMG.

McHale Website — This is not a point and click Website. You can't even order a pack online! There is no small, medium, or large size. Each pack is made to EXACTLY fit the owner. And Dan does not want your torso size. He needs 4 different measurements, none of which are your torso length. He will determine that himself. Or you can go to Dan's shop and he will personally measure you, which is not practical for most people. So if you want a McHale pack you call Dan and he asks a lot questions to determine your wants and needs. He also will answer any questions you have. At this point he may have you go online and will walk you through his Website to show you packs and discuss features and benefits. After this exercise the Website is easy to use and understand. At this point he will recommend a pack that he feels is right for you, based on all the information you provided.

Next step is to send you a demo pack so you can USE it. You will need to take pictures or videos per Dan's instructions and send them to him. He then analyses the fit, how you adjusted the pack, how you packed your gear, etc. Then he may have you change things and do the process over. I probably sent Dan 5 or 6 sets of pictures, and there were numerous email exchanges. When Dan is satisfied that the demo fits properly, and you are satisfied that this is the pack you want, then he builds it. Dan spent at least 10 hours on the phone with me… that is 10 hours before the pack was built to make sure it was perfect. That is time which is part of the cost. I also learned a lot about packs in general during the process.

Materials. Not all materials are the same. Dan orders materials to meet his specifications and does a lot of testing. By the way, you can now buy a Cuben pack from McHale Packs, and Dan has spent the past 6 years or so working with the material before he brought it to market. And he ordered special Cuben to meet his specifications. When you by a pack you can generally choose Cordura, Cuben, Dyneema Gird or Spectra. He probably has other fabrics I don't know about. And you can mix different fabrics on your pack, with Dan's guidance of course. He uses the best hardware and does not use 'run-of-the-mill" aluminum for his stays. Most McHale packs have Spectra bottoms.

Colors. Most of the packs on his site are packs made for customers and the colors are what the CUSTOMER wanted. Not all fabrics can be dyed. And every Spectra or Dyneema pack I have seen are white, except Dan's… seems he is the only person who can dye it.

Options. Most McHale packs have a plethora of options. Kangaroo pockets, water bottle pockets, different kinds of hip pockets, should pockets, shovel pockets, ice ax pockets, loops, several summit lids including a special configuration for bear canisters, hydration options, etc. Additionally on many packs you can get an optional system to lengthen the stays and a patented by-pass harness that includes load lifters. This system can be removed or added as you need it.

I have used my McHale pack almost exclusively for the past year, and every trip I like it even more. The exception is a small inexpensive cuben pack I bought from another company to test the fabric. I am working with Dan on the purchase of a smaller pack (the Bump) and wanted to have a feel for Cuben before I order the pack, and I am not sure I even want that material. But my next pack is going to be a McHale. I will then own 2 McHale Packs and they will last me for the rest of my life, and will bequeathed to my son when I die. And all my other UL packs will be sold or given away.

Now when someone posts something negative about a manufacturer who I had a good experience with, I will state that. But I have never gone to the length of this post, because McHale Packs are not comparable to anything on the market, they are better IMO. Now we can philosophize about the merits of 4oz frameless packs, but that is not the purpose of my post.

Before I even thought about a McHale pack, my perception of Dan from his posts was that he was one very knowledgeable guy and I knew little about his packs. I will tell you that my purchase experience and the customer service was hands-down the absolute best I have ever received from any company; for any product. Also before I called Dan I spent maybe 6 months reading every single item on the Web that had anything to do with McHale packs. I was shocked that almost 100% of McHale owners were completely satisfied, as a matter of fact the term is probably more that they are all McHale Pack advocates.

[Kyle Meyer]

I applaud Hendrik for not coddling an aggressive, arrogant man like Dan McHale. I know that if I wouldn't tolerate an in person conversation with Dan where he complained bout petty differences like daisy chains and belittled other companies while buttering his own bun. Why should we expect less online?

Every invention and innovation is born from previous work. The Porter brings something new to market. Sorry that hurts your feelings and/or bottom line Dan, but you should get over it and add some new value to the world.

[Author]

Posts