Jan 5, 2012 at 12:19 pm #1283741
I have been doing a lot of R&D for my next MYOG Project. Its going to be a somewhat UL Backpack. I am a bit ruff on the bottoms of my packs, and wanted some extra reinforcing there. The main pack body is going to be the .75oz Yellow Cuben fiber from Lawson's Equipment. Anyway, i was wondering what the weight difference is between the Dyneema Gridstop and the White Widow Spectra. Also, how does the feel compare? Is one easier to sew than the other? I would appreciate any advice and help i can get. I am Also looking for 1/2 yard of the dyneema gridstop, i have a post in the Gear Swap sub forum.
Hevi Shot Pro StaffJan 5, 2012 at 1:34 pm #1820292
drowning in spamMember
I believe they're both 200D and weigh the same, but the difference is that the Dyneema Gridstop has a smaller grid, which should mean that it has more dyneema.Jan 5, 2012 at 2:39 pm #1820341
Thanks Eugene. Thats just the information i needed. I appreciate your timely response! Have you personally worked with either fabric? How does it sew?
-ThomasJan 5, 2012 at 3:23 pm #1820368
drowning in spamMember
I haven't, but one of the sites used to have this information on their website. I'm sure it won't be long before someone here can tell you how well it sews.Jan 5, 2012 at 3:49 pm #1820383
I'm no sewing expert, but I recently made some bike bags from Thru Hiker Dyneema X Gridstop and to my inexperienced self, it seemed to sew easily enough. You have to use sharp scissors and/or extra pressure if using a roller cutter to cut through the dyneema fibers though.
BMJan 5, 2012 at 4:13 pm #1820399
Thanks guys! i appreciate all the helpful replies. Ordered all my hardwear and webbing, shock cord, cord and zipper today from seattle, along with the white widow spectra. Hoping to have a completed backpack in the nest few weeks, time permitting.
-ThomasJan 5, 2012 at 4:42 pm #1820408
Tim MarshallBPL Member
the white window spectra is 500D and weighs twice as much.
-TimJan 5, 2012 at 8:50 pm #1820559
I guess i understand the "D" rating now a little bit better. I hope someone has some extra Dyneema X gridstop i can purchase to compare the two fabrics. Weight/durability test i guess.
-ThomasJan 5, 2012 at 9:53 pm #1820585
Sam FarringtonBPL Member
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
I purchased dark green spectra gridstop from Seattle Fabrics when they had that color. It sewed fine – no problems at all. No problem cutting it either, but I keep a scissor sharpener handy and use it frequently, so that the scissors are sharp enough to just slice through fabrics without much actual scissoring.
It weighs 4 oz per square yard, and became stiffer after extended use in the outdoors, while the fabric still at home on the role remained pliable.
After extended use in the outdoors, the pack also lost some of its waterproofness. That could have been due to the seamgrip sealer wearing out, but I doubt it. The PU inner coating is quite thin, and judging from appearances, I don't think it held up.
I am much more impressed by the 5 oz Xpac fabric (D-P VX07) available from Rockywoods, for it is much more waterproof and appears to be quite strong. It is 1 oz per sq. yd. heavier than the gridstop, so will add about an ounce to the pack over the spectra (the pack uses about one sq. yd. of outer fabric). But for me, the added ounce is well worth its weight.
When you consider a 2-3K cubic inch pack using about a sq. yd. of outer fabric, the difference in weight from 1.4 oz cuben or silnylon to 4.9 oz Xpac is only 3 1/2 ounces. For me, it is worth the extra 3 1/2 ounces, in an item that sees the most wear and tear of any I use, to have it much more durable and waterproof.
I looked at the around 3 oz cuben/nylon laminate from Zpacks, and don't like its stiffness. A pack with it would seem more like a pack basket to me.
Don't think you will be happy long term with .75 oz thin mylar cuben for a pack. It will be much more susceptible to abrasion, punctures and leakage than heavier materials, and will not hold stitches well. Suugest you read Joe Valesko's comments about this on his website, Zpacks. He is very honest about this, even though his products use this material, and he is talking about the heavier cuben with a thicker and therefore tougher and more water resistant mylar. If you are determined to use the light cuben, you should consider either bonding rather than sewing it, or bonding strips of nylon along the edges of the pattern pieces before sewing. I plan to do this with .75 oz cuben used in the end covers for a tent. Since the other tent materials are sil-coated, I will probably use GE silicone glue, but Hysol urethane glue would probably create a stronger bond where no sil-coated materials are involved.
Good luck, and please post when you've completed the pack, and again after you've used it a while. Thanks.Jan 6, 2012 at 8:28 am #1820737
@socal-nomadLocale: North San Diego county
White widow is 500D dyeenma cordura it manufactured by warwick mills. The white widow fabric name used to be used by other fabric stores like OWF for awhile.Jan 6, 2012 at 1:28 pm #1820907
Thanks Sam. That was a very informative post. It made me think a lot about fabric choices, weights and colors. i say colors because the .75oz Cuben is a bright yellow, and I had ordered all my notions in accordance with a black and yellow theme in mind. Im thinking i could make the entire pack body out of the Thru-Hiker Dyneema gridstop in black, and do the trim and things in the yellow i already have, as i cant find any other yellow fabrics! I think the cuben will be good for a summit/day pack for light use, but your absolutely right about the durability of the fabric itself. Again, thank you for your post. It took alot of time and thought and it was well recieved and appreciated!
-ThomasJan 6, 2012 at 1:29 pm #1820908
Terry, thanks for the information on manufacturer and availability of fabric. Good information there. Any idea if it can be ordered in other colors? Perhaps a bright yellow?
-ThomasJan 6, 2012 at 2:04 pm #1820919
Luke SchmidtBPL Member
@cameronLocale: Idaho Falls
I've sewn something like 7 packs with the Dyneema X from thru-hiker. Sharp scissers are nice for sure. Sometimes my needles break for no apparent reason in the stuff. I think they are getting dull and breaking when they hit the spectra threads. Anyway its not a huge deal just keep a few extra needles on hand. I like the fact that it doesn't really stretch unlike silnylone so getting a neat pack is a lot easier, its also nowhere near as slipper.May 28, 2012 at 6:13 am #1881661
Your needles breaking during sewing of Dyneema and other non-equal d fabrics is caused by the needle being deflected (bent off course) by the grids in the fabric,or when there is an unequal layer of material or webbing. You can use the smallest needle possible for the weight of the fabric or the thread, or change the throat
plate of your machine. Walking-foot sewing machines rarely have this problem.May 28, 2012 at 8:36 pm #1881881
Sam FarringtonBPL Member
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
Try using Singer ball point needles for everything except leather and other substances that have to be cut through by the needle. Singer makes special needles for that.
The ball point seems to separate the threads, rather than try to penetrate them.
In any event, I've had no more needle problems than normal with Spectra and ball points.
Note: Have begun sewing with the 4.9 oz. Xpac. Had planned to use it for the high abuse areas of the pack. No more. Needle holes tend to show up much more than on nylon material, and this may be similar to the needle hole issues with Cuben.
So will use an even heavier diamond grid nylon for the pack bottom, top shelf, and portions of the backpanel that are not net. The rest of the pack will probably be the Xpac, because it is very waterproof. Quest Outfitters had some double-coated pack material around 3 oz. on their site, but are sold out of it, and don't expect any soon. I have some 4 oz. "storm" ripstop material from OWF from 2005 that is very waterproof, but has almost no DWR; so it would have to be sprayed with something like ReviveX and heat-treated in the dryer before use. Have not found any simple answers in the search for the perfect pack fabric.Apr 30, 2013 at 5:39 pm #1982084
Michael FogartyBPL Member
Anyone know where I can find this fabric? Seattle fabrics doesn't seem to carry it anymore?
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