Fixed Torso vs. Adjustable Torso

I'd take the fully adjustable.

How does it adjust?
I tried the SMD Starlite, and found it very uncomfortable. The straps came from a single adjustable point, and they dug into my neck. I much prefer a set length, with the straps having seperate starting points on the pack, not together.

Obviously if you could get adjustable for no cost or lack of performance, that would be better. That's probably unrealistic.

On the other hand, if you know what torso length you need, then it wouldn't matter.

It will be interesting where you take this. You must have an adjustable pack you're thinking of selling.

Lawson – what I believe to be ideal is a torso adjustment that would allow micro adjustments between a certain range – say 18" to 22". Attached by velcro, a shoulder harness that can be moved up or down in small increments can provide essentially a custom fit and can also be adjusted on the trail over long days. No tools required. Over long days with a pack on, one sweats and the pack can slide down even after tightening the belt. Allowing micro adjustments, you could increase the torso length slightly and relieve the shoulders of any pressure.

Fixed torso length.

I have the Ohm w/ the 2.0 hipbelt setup and it has slight torso adjustability, but I don't see me moving that around considering it is dialed in. What benefit to a user is there in having torso adjustability besides being able to pass a pack along to someone else and dial it in to their length?

was thinking what david said

In my opinion. Load lifters seem to help for micro adjustments with fixed torso packs but nothing allows you to dial in a pack perfectly like an adjustable torso. Only downfall I find is that most adjustable torso systems are heavy, bulky, hard to adjust, and don't work that great.. My thought is something simple and can quickly be adjusted in the field with no tools. Basically a system that uses a combination of velcro, webbing, ladder locks, etc, and once set is fixed and will not budge a Millimeter.

As Eugene mentioned. Once you have your pack dialed in, you really don't have to adjust it much but I also like David's point about making micro adjustments on a long trip which is something I know have done before.. Plus its nice to be able to loan your pack out and it work great for a friend. I am personally on the fence..

Eugene, you mentioned:

"I have the Ohm w/ the 2.0 hipbelt setup and it has slight torso adjustability, but I don't see me moving that around considering it is dialed in. What benefit to a user is there in having torso adjustability besides being able to pass a pack along to someone else and dial it in to their length?"

But isn't that the point? The fact that you were even afforded the opportunity to get the pack dialed in just right in the first place? I think it's worth the extra 1-2oz of extra material necessary to making a pack adjustable, to ensure that the user gets a pack that fits so well where it don't have to ever be touched again. Without torso adjustability, and assuming you pick the right size for your body type, you might get really lucky and have a pack that fits you extremely well, or you might settle for a pack that fits pretty good.

Also, sorry for the derail Lawson, but a quick question about your 2.0 ohm Eugene. I know you were pretty hesitant of the 2.0 when it was first posted on the forum. What changed? And do you think it performs better than your former 1.0?

What is the purpose of load lifters? Do they really work?

If I'm ordering online where I can't try the pack on AND there's no significant weight penalty, then I would choose the adjustable torso.

If I was buying a pack in stores when I could try all the sizes on, I would prefer fixed lengths so that I could select the right one and then enjoy the simplicity of that pack.

I like adjustable torso packs, since it allows me to fine tune the adjustment to account for different clothing in different seasons (ie: T-shirt only vs fleece + rain shell).

However, I ONLY like adjustable packs that aren't "one-size fit's all" packs. I find those tower too high above my head since they fit folks that are 6'5" and I have the torso adjustment set about 1/2 way up the ladder (I'm 5'9" tall).

For adjustments mechanisms, I think the Deuter is the best I've ever used :).

@ Konrad,

I sent you a PM with more details to your question as to not derail this thread.

My older REI Cruise UL pack has a Velcro adjustable shoulder harness and I really like it (as opposed to my non-adjustable Dana Designs Terraplane).

I love Osprey packs – except for their non-adjustable harness. But they do have several sizes. Luckily their Large fits me well in the bigger EXOS.

to fine-tune the fit on the cilogear packs that are available in different back-lengths. the waist belt attaches by velcro into a sleeve and there's maybe 2" of adjustment. also makes the waist belt easily removable. i've played around with it some and think it's a great method to dial-in back-length.

What Richard describes is spot on with how ULA allows adjustability with the Ohm 2.0. I'm pleased with the simplicity of this setup, the slight torso adjustability is a bonus.

I take the adjustable, because I'm growing and I want the pack to follow me over the next few years, or more.

Okay, I'm only growing sideways and perhaps a little stooped over, but the guys I help out are growing in the vert. Weight penalty is like way amazing, you know?

My first reply seems out of place going by the following comments.
You guys are talking about heavy, tradional packs.

I figured most people would prefer a fixed torso, but its good to know I was wrong.

For the extra couple ounces, a well engineered adjustable torso is definitely worth the weight and cost. I like being able to dial in the perfect fit. That fit changes with the season, my clothing, the load, and my mood. With two back surgeries, a rebuilt shoulder, and another shoulder due for surgery, that "mood" changes even throughout the day.

Also, all of my packs eventually get handed down to someone else, and that's usually a growing scout. I'd hate to be unable to recycle my gear because I can't find the right-sized recipient.

By the way, load lifters go hand-in-hand with the adjustable torso to make for a good fit for me. Some days, I just can't carry any weight at all on my shoulders.

Load lifters are intended to lift the shoulder strap off the top of your shoulders slightly – or at least to reduce the load placed on the top of your shoulders by the shoulder strap. To do this, they must be attached to the pack at a point above the top of your shoulders – ideally they will run at something close to a 45 degree angle – and the pack must have enough stiffness so that they do not simply compress the top part of the pack. In my experience this only works with a a frame of some sort – foam pads don't cut it.
Essentially what you do when load lifters are in use and properly adjusted is that instead of a strap running from the pack over the top of your shoulder ad down to the bottom of the pack,you create a strap that runs from the top of the stays ( the top attachment point of the load lifters) to the bottom of the pack, and instead of placing a load on the top of your shoulder, you are creating a tight band that holds the pack against your body while all or most of the weight is transferred to your hipbelt through the frame. Getting things adjusted properly to do this can be tricky, which is why Dan Mchale created his "Bypass" harness, which accomplishes the same thing in a way that is easier for the user to adjust.
Load lifters seem to be widely misunderstood both by pack salespeople and by pack users – When I see packs on the trail I very often – more often than not – see the load lifters and the entire suspension maladjusted, and I also often see folks with packs that are too short for their torso – in which case the load lifers become useless, as they cannot run up at an angle from the top of the shoulder as they need to do.

So if the pack fits, and has an adequate frame, then yes, load lifters work. If the pack doesn't fit, or does not have an adequate frame, they don't.

Thanks Paul

That actually makes sense

I'm still a little skeptical, but that's consistent with your description

Now I have to look into Dan's bypass harness

Many McHales also have a micro adjustment in the main stays and the pack bag length adjusts too.