Comfort/Light Weight

Wow… That is a pretty adventurous first backpacking trek, and "what do I need" is a wide open question. For every person on here, you're likely to get a different recommended gear list.

I'm sure the collective here will be happy to offer advice, but if you could start by clarifying a few things, we can give you more targeted advice. Do you plan on doing this alone? With a small or large crew? If with others, do they have any crew gear already (stove/water filter/tent/etc.)? Do you prefer to tent or tarp it? Willing to try a quilt or prefer to stick with a sleeping bag? Do you plan on making the backpacking thing a regular habit, or is this a one-shot deal?

Well, after you have made all of your gear purchases, then get a backpack to fit it all. It's hard enough to make a decision on one new piece of gear let alone all the gear. Shelter, bag/pad, pack. Shoes to make it happen.
Duane

Budget, budget, budget.

For example, there is a 30º quilt from Katabatic Gear. Depending on your height, it'll run upwards of $400. Walk in to REI and you can probably find something just as warm for $100 or less.

Dan McHale is probably the world's premier packmaker, but you might spend $1,000 (or more) depending on your options. REI will fit you for a pack and give you a plethora of choices under $250.

If you aren't worried about price, everyone can give you their dream setup. Establish at least a rough budget.

Also, everyone has personal preferences. Take a lot of our advice with a grain of salt – we all will give you different advice anyway.

Budget or no budget.

You can rent a backpack, sleeping pad and maybe a sleeping bag from some stores. For a first timer who may or may not like the sport, that's a great option.

You can also fall in with your local hiking group or Sierra Club Chapter. Not only can those experienced people give you a lot of pointers, but by your second or third outing, they'll be offering you their gear to borrow for your trip. It's a great way to try different approaches before you commit/buy.

The biggest thing BY FAR for such a strenous trip is the CONDITION you will be in, not the gear you will carry. There are many blogs and articles on hiking the Grand Canyon. And preparing for it. It is a spetacular trip, but also one of the hardest beginner trips imaginable.

I've done it may times and my enjoyment depends much more all the hikes I did in advance than on my pack weight.

I know it's a broad question, but I guess that's how little I know. I don't even know enough to make the question more specific.

Im going with 1 other person and I hope to start over night hiking a few times a year atleast. How about I start with what I think I need and then you guys can help me fill in the blanks?

Clothing… check. I have boots, wool socks, layered clothing. Its not Patagonia, but I think it should do.
-2 person tent, weighs about 5 lbs.
-1 Wal-Mart sleeping bag.. (cost me 20 bucks) Should I upgrade?
-I have heard a few things on quilts, not sure which is better.. preference I assume?
-I need a sleeping pad. Suggestions?! Quality/comfy sleep is a high priority for me.
-What do you guys carry for food that keeps for 3 days? MRE's?
-I need cook ware
-I need a pack
-Ive got a Stream Light FLashlight, fire starter, survival knife..etc
-I need an efficient way to carry water. This is a worry for me because I dont know how much to carry. I've never made the hike, and I don't know how much water I will see on the trails.
-Should I get a hiking GPS?

Thats all I can think of right now, what do you think?

Thanks guys
Ben

I would do some reading in the "Gear List" forum. There are 45 pages of a lot of information on how to put together a gear list of what you will need for this trip.

Good luck–it is a wonderful adventure to the prepared and even the not so prepared.

According to the data found on the page linked below, average daily high temperatures in the bottom of the Grand Canyon in May are around 90°F, with record highs in the 100–110°F range. You’ll need more than a gallon of water per person per day, and plenty of sun protection (hat, glasses, sunscreen).

Western Regional Climate Center, Inner Canyon USGS, Arizona

I’m not familiar with the trail, so I don’t know how many places you can get water along the way aside from the Colorado itself. It wouldn’t surprise me if there aren’t any in dry weather.

The inner Gorge ranges from 90-110 degrees, but the North and south Rim are much cooler. Like I said before around 30-60 degrees in may.

Take the following with a grain of salt as it is only my opinion and everyone will have a different one.

Also, if u have an unlimited budget and plan on doing this a lot more, I could put together a 6lb. Pack that doesn't sacrifice much in comfort. But I'm going to assume u don't want to spend $2,000 for your first and possibly only trip…

-2 person tent, weighs about 5 lbs. — that'll work. There's definitely lighter options, but if only one of you are carrying shelter it should offset things. My wife and I carry a 5lb. tent at the moment. Usually one person carries the tent and the other one carries all the food.

-1 Wal-Mart sleeping bag.. (cost me 20 bucks) Should I upgrade? — Depends on the temperature rating of the bag and your expected lows. If the bag is rated 30F don't expect to be comfortable below 40F. Also, how compact will it get? This may cause issues with packing, but you could also attach it to the outside of your pack.

-I have heard a few things on quilts, not sure which is better.. preference I assume? –preference yes, but will also help save some weight, but I wouldn't worry about it unless you plan to upgrade your bag and are willing to spend some money.

-I need a sleeping pad. Suggestions?! Quality/comfy sleep is a high priority for me. –cheapest and almost the lightest option would be a z-lite ridge rest. Fold it in half and put your pack under your feet. Almost as comfortable as an inflateable. You could go with an inflatable but to get a similar weight it will cost over $100 more. The ridgerest is bulky, but if you strap it outside your pack, you can pull it out at rest stops to sit on.

-What do you guys carry for food that keeps for 3 days? MRE's? –mountain house for dinner. All you need to do is add boiling water. Two packs of instant oatmeal for breakfast. Whatever you want for lunch, trailmix, bars, jerky, another mountain house? Just make sure your getting enough calories each day. No campfires? Look into a caldera cone. A foster's can pot and esbit tabs will probably be your lightest stove/windscreen/fuel option.

-I need cook ware –keep it simple. If you are only cooking for freeze dried meals then you only need to boil water. If you are allowed camp fires then you don't really even need a stove, just a pot and a spork. Aluminum grease pot for $7 is pretty light for it's size, unless you go the caldera cone route.

-I need a pack — buy this LAST. And if possible go somewhere where you can try the packs on with weight in them. Your not likely going to be carrying less than 20lb., so I would go with an internal frame pack. Give a good look at Deuter brand. Super comfy for carrying up to 40lb. and only run about $150. However, everyone is different that's why I always recommend wearing a pack with the weight of the gear you have in it. One person's dream is another's nightmare.

-Ive got a Stream Light FLashlight, fire starter, survival knife..etc –throw in some band aids, Motrin, pepto, mini bic, whistle, and 10ft of duct tape.

-I need an efficient way to carry water. This is a worry for me because I dont know how much to carry. I've never made the hike, and I don't know how much water I will see on the trails.
–this you need to look into!!! How far between water sources will decide how much you need to carry. Another good reason for a framed pack, as water is the heaviest thing you will carry. I like water bladders. Most packs allow you to carry them close to your back for balance and comfort, and they make it easy to stay hydrated by having the drink tube so easily accessable. You also need a way to filter your water. Look into the sawyer squeeze filter. You may not like iodine or chlorine. ?

-Should I get a hiking GPS? –how good are you with a map and compass? Don't know north from south? Then yes, but play with it and learn how to use it, and make sure you have the map downloaded for your area.

Of course, as someone else mentioned, it may be a cheaper short term option to rent the gear you need.

Hope that helps a little.

I've read that food can be difficult to protect out there, so you might want to do something about that. I always use an Ursack, and I bet that'd be enough to protect food for you and one other person. The Ursack Minor should work fine if you don't want to buy the bear resistant version.

What's the bugs and weather (wind) like? If both are good, then I'd strongly consider a flat tarp. It'd be very light and inexpensive, and might even give you more pitching options, although you'll need to get familiar with various options for setting it up.

You can get some very nice gear, use it for your trip, and sell it here when you're done. You can even buy it here. If this is your only trip for the gear you're buying, this might cost less than buying cheap gear that you can't sell. If that was my plan, here's what I'd get:

EnLIGHTened Equipment Revelation (down) quilt, 20°F
8×10' flat silnylon tarp with webbing tie outs
ULA Circuit or Catalyst
Ursack (Minor?)
Maybe add a TiGoat bivy

Those things should be pretty easy to sell. A comparable Golite quilt would be easier to sell, but they don't seem to resell for much. You should know that EnLIGHTened only makes quilts after they are ordered, so you should order as early as possible if you want one.

That leaves you with a sleeping pad, clothing, water treatment and lighting. Those things are personal and depend a lot of the type of trip, and are harder to sell. If you can tolerate pads, then a Z-rest is a great solution. I personally wouldn't use a base layer, just boxer briefs…just clean up before crawling under your quilt. I think a puffy vest would be warm enough for your trip. I like puffy headgear like the RayWay bomber hat, but you have to make that yourself. I have no idea what kind of gear is suitable for that hike, but you probably wouldn't go wrong with a Dri Ducks suit. The two options I'd consider for that trip is a Sawyer filter or chemicals like Aqua Mira. I've heard that the water from the river can have a lot of sediment and that letting it sit in a bucket for a while helps to let the sediment settle, but coming up with a similar packable solution is somewhat troublesome. If you put it straight into a filter, you will quickly clog it, but that might not become an issue during your trip. For lighting, I like a bright light with a spot+flood beam pattern. My two favorites are somewhat expensive, especially if you use good batteries. The first is a Zebralight H600. It can be used easily as a flashlight or a headlamp, and is nearly as bright as halogen car headlamps at 750 lumens. It uses a lithium ion 18650 cell that costs $20 for a good battery, and requires a special charger. The second light is a Spark SD52. It can use normal AA batteries and put out 280 lumens, which is still very bright…much brighter than the headlamps most hikers use. It can also use lithium ion 14500 batteries to allow an output of about 500 lumens, and would also require a special charger. Both lights are pretty light, although a little heavier than dim floody lights like the Petzl Tikka, but the weight difference gets smaller when you add the weight of the batteries.

I don't know if you'll be cooking. I don't cook…

Oh yeah, use disposable drink bottles (like gatorade) for your water. They are light, cheap and strong.

Benjamin,

I've been hiking at the GC several times during the same time. The spring weather is somewhat unpredictable. On one late April trip it was 27F at 8am at the rim, snowing, changed to sleet, then to "snow balls", then to rain. When we got to the bottom that afternoon it was 75F +. Be prepared to strip off layers as you go down. Going back up you'll be making enough heat to stay in shorts. Give yourself a day at least to acclimate your body- especially starting at the NRim- elevation is 1,000 ft higher than the south rim. Going down is harder on your knees and toes than going up. Make sure your toes are not jambed in the front of your shoe. Good info can be found on http://www.hikearizona.com.

Ben – Since you're starting out in backpacking, you can collect lots of useful advice in this forum. But I bet you'd benefit from buying "Allen and Mike's Really Cool Backpackin' Book", as well as "Ultralight Backpackin' Tips: 153 Amazing & Inexpensive Tips for Extremely Lightweight Camping". Both are available at Amazon and may be the best $25 you can spend at this point.

First of all, permit requests for May go in on Januaray 1st which I assume you're prepared for. But note that, statistically, May corridor permits are the hardest to get, so be sure to have a backup itinerary. North Rim services (including the shuttle) don't open until May 15th, which makes the second half of May the toughest.

Before you go running off to buy gear, I would strongly suggest waiting until you have your permit, so that you know exactly what dates and which camps. The beginning of May is often still "spring" in the Canyon while the end of May is solidly into "summer". And Cottonwood Camp is at 5,000 feet vs Bright Angel campground at 2,500 feet; difference can easily be 15-20 degrees, and usually the difference between carrying a 30-degree bag and a 45-degree bag.

Not sure where you got your temperature predictions; are you including a night at the North Rim? That would be the coldest and, in early May, you should be prepared for snow and freezing temps. Below the rim, in early May, you *might* see 35-degrees (and be prepared for 30) at Cottonwood but, otherwise, it will be balmy, if not downright hot. Nights at the river are going to be in the 50's. In May, you can easily have daytime temps in the 90's below the rim.

Corridor (i.e. North Kaibab, Bright Angel trail) has lots of water (as the Grand Canyon goes, anyway.) So, if that's what you get your permit for, you'll probably never carry more than 2 liters. I'd take an additional liter container in case you have a really hot day.

All of the corridor camps are designated campsites and they each have an ammo box for food protection. *If* you get a non-corridor camp on your permit, you'll want to consider something like an Outsak to protect your food against the mice. The Grand Canyon mice are an especially tenacious bunch.

I never take a tent in the Canyon. I take a tarp but only set it when it looks like rain which, in May, will be rare. The Canyon's a perfect place for sleeping under the stars; little rain and no bugs.

Consider hiking poles.

I would look at the lists of other people on here. Many post gear lists. You may want to add, for the GC, an extra 2 liter platypus, a good hat, and trekking poles. A tarp will probably do there and save you a lot of weight. For a 3 day trip as a beginner, my only cooking would be boiling water and pouring it into a dehydrated meal bag; you'll carry a lot less.

Exactly what I was looking for guys, thanks a ton.

I can start on my permit Jan 01, so that's what we plan to do. The trip is at the End of May, I got the temperatures off of GrandCanyonHiker.com

James: We want to hike both the North and the South Rim, but un sure of which way to go. North to South or South to North. Does it matter? Do you have a suggestion?

I thought I knew about quilts lol but I guess I do not. When I heard the term I imagined a blanket.. like the heavy duty stuff your grama owns. I looked them up on hiking websites though and they just look like sleeping bags. Help?

Great info guys I really appreciate it.

Ben

quilt example,they make great quilts

http://katabaticgear.com/shop/category/sleeping-bags/

click on images for a better idea

http://katabaticgear.com/shop/palisade-sleeping-bag/

need to be a member to read this one

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/2006_unconventional_sleep_systems_manifesto.html

a few good companies to look at

http://www.tarptent.com/allproducts.html

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/tents.html

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/packs.html

http://gossamergear.com/packs/backpacks.html

http://www.ula-equipment.com/packoverview.asp

http://www.zpacks.com/

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/index.php?cPath=47

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/index.php?cPath=21

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/index.php?cPath=25

http://www.lightheartgear.com

http://www.yamamountaingear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=51

http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Wearable%20Quilts.htm#SierraStealth

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/products.html

http://www.rutalocura.com/products.html

you might like these videos

http://ultralightbackpackintips.blogspot.com/2011/07/video-tutorials.html

>> The trip is at the End of May, I got the temperatures off of GrandCanyonHiker.com

Average temps on the NPS site (bottom of page):
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/weather-condition.htm

Note the "inner canyon" temps for May and June; average high is over 90. Precipitation for May and June are the lowest of the year. If there's no rain in the forecast, take one of those $1 "disposable" ponchos.

I'm also going to say this. As great as the UL gear that's been mentioned is, May conditions in the Canyon are such that you don't need anything more than a cheap 40-degree down bag, something like a Lafuma, that you should be able to pick up for less than $50 on sale. That and a cheap tarp and hiking poles. If you're going to spend money on anything, get a comfortable light pad.

Also, the Canyon is bone dry and it will be hot. This is the one hike that cotton is perfectly fine. In fact, I prefer cotton t-shirts that I can soak in the creek and keep cool. You'll want non-cotton socks, that's all.

Take a few dollars for beer at Phantom Ranch!

Good luck on that permit.

Ben,

From the N Rim to Phantom Ranch it's 14 miles downhill. From the S. Rim to Phantom ranch it's around 9 miles downhill. There are more services on the south rim. Also to consider, the north rim usually doesnot even open until May 15 because of the snow. We were there this past June and there was still snow in the shade with daytime temps at the rim in the low 70s (90 below the rim) and nights around upper 30s on the rim. If you go S to N you will need a night at Bright Angel and a night at Cottonwood. Going N to S you will need a night at Bright Angel and from there you can walk the 9 miles up to the south rim if you start before daybreak- otherwise you may burn up ( or reserve a night at Indian Gardens). Best to hike in the canyon early morning and late afternoon, avoid the mid day to early afternoon heat. Go to http://www.nps.gov lot's of good info on the canyon there.

If you can't get a permit for that, get a night at Horseshoe Mesa down the Grand View trail- lots of solitude, awesome views, and no donkeys.

Or there are a lot of awesome day hike possibilities.

Ben,

Also you can pretty much rent all your gear from the park's stores on the South Rim.

For getting a picture of the various conditions you might encounter, I recommend Colin Fletcher's 1968 account of two months spent hiking the Grand Canyon:

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Walked-Through-Time/dp/0679723064/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Note that his gear was mostly from sources that no longer exist, but the general principles remain the same because the Canyon is the same.

James: Ive got a map and im matching everything up with what your telling me, its all making sense. I guess the only question now is my permit and whether I want to camp 2 days or 1.. walk 14 miles down hill or up ;)

Ill talk it over with my partner and see what we come up with. Once I get the Schedule and permit in place I can start working on that gear list. Thanks for all the info guys.

Oh and James, do you prefer the North to South or South to North? I was thinking North to South so that I wasn't hiking up hill 14 miles on the home stretch, but what do you think?

EDIT* One more thing, is there a shuttle that runs back to the other side or do I have to hike the thing twice lol?

Ben

http://www.trans-canyonshuttle.com/

Some more info on Grand Canyon here:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=43999&disable_pagination=1

Carol Crooker seems to be well informed in dessert hiking round here. She has a gear list for desert hiking and articles about hiking the different times of year. I wish I could pack this way but it's something to aim for:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/desert_backpacking_gear_list.html

The Rims are still chilly(as in still snow possible) at night but gets warmer as you go down. If your pack is heavy the going down can be brutal… don't forget to prepare for the trip. (go up and down steep stuff with a pack on). Make sure your food and fuel is not overdone. They can really weigh you down if you go over prepared. Many people just take way too much on the corridor trails and you can even find people giving stuff away at the bottom trying to make their packs lighter. If you get stuck needing a few extras(snack etc.) you can always buy some at Phantom Ranch.. Snacks are especially heavy.. I wouldn't volunteer to take the tent and snacks.. If your taking the tent make sure your partner takes all the food.. I think technically if you are just corridor camping 2 nights and staying at bright angel camp & then say cottonwood camp.. you could even go to the bottom.. buy all your food there including having a steak dinner(needs to book ahead) some sandwiches & snacks for the following day/night..(if you want to spend money). Then you won't need to bring a kitchen with you at all.. No stove, no fuel! Maybe a bowl/mug and spork for cereal w/Nido(powdered whole milk) and maybe some hemp hearts for protein :P… This does not address hot coffee at all though… unless you like it cold… Via rocks over Nescafe (of course that's according to me)!! I cringe at the packaging waste of Via but still use it.. doh!

Mike Clelland's book is just great for info even if your not going ultralight. I recommend the ebook version and you can use it as a reference where ever you go(plus it's lightweight!!:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpackin-Tips-Inexpensive-Lightweight/dp/0762763841/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1325454367&sr=1-1-catcorr

If decide you like backpacking and would like good gear for it, I really recommend trying some gear before you buy. You will most likely find that your first purchase after you get it could go lighter. My first pack was 5lbs and it was my first purchase after I had saved a bunch of money… I didn't know about going lighter then, all I knew is I wanted to go hiking. I wanted to go somewhere and bammit, I just wanted a pack to do it with. It's bomb proof but after doing some reading and discovery around here and in the articles you may find that a frameless pack may be just as good. Or, you may find that you can save some money and go for something ubber nice that everyone wished they had bought for their first pack(most likely not from a major manufacturer though)…

Last year I went with a Go-Lite Pinnacle pack I got on clearance for $50.00.. It was a little sweaty but I found I didn't need the frame and the difference was 3lbs between pack weights.. That's 3lbs off my back!! Just with a different pack!! When your in the Canyon you will thank your lucky stars you don't have more weight. IMHO it's the going down that'll get ya… and then, you have to crawl out.. hahahahaha. Try gear anyway you can… Join a local hiking group in your area, beg from your friends or family if someone has something stowed away just to try it out.. Also REI will rent gear as well… Try it out first!! Or, if you want I can loan you my 5lbs pack and you can load it up run around with it and consider your options. For 3 days you don't need a huge pack.. and if you do and you fill it, you've brought/bought too much and you'll be wishing you hadn't.. ps… the bottom is like car camping without the car… There are even picnic tables at the bottom.

If it's just two of you.. you could try an alcohol stove. If your taking pre-packaged meals all you need to do is just boil water mostly anyway. I'm not sure mine is the best in the world but it's really easy to light and takes about 5-6mins to boil 500ml of water and the wind cover is the pot stand so it won't likely blow away on ya… I've had it for 3 years and it's still going. I had no problems with delivery from their site though it's not the worlds greatest website:
http://www.thermojetstove.com/

If you make a simple one you can save yourself money. Just google alcohol stove and check out all the images of them to get an idea of how varied they can get.. Simple to complicated. I've been reading about the penny stove lately..

See if you can rent a tent if your going with a tent.. Maybe a single wall? Pretty dry in the canyon so condensation shouldn't be an issue. A single wall fully enclosed could be 3lbs or under… Mine is bomb proof in the rain though I didn't think it possibly could that first time in a downpour. My friend also reflected the same thoughts when we got hit with rain in the Canyon on 2 nights.. (maybe we where just unlucky – everyone seems to think it doesn't there but yes it does and yes in May)… dries up fast though.

If you shave weight everywhere then you can put it back in the one place you'd really like..

For a super cushy mat this is what my aunt who's never been backpacking loved in the Canyon last year. She even wanted to buy it off of me… It's sinfully delicious but a whopping 2lbs… even comes with it's own repair kit and bag.

SynMat 7 M
Size: 183 x 52cm / 72 x 20"
Thickness: 7 cm / 2.8“
Weight:860 g / 30.3 oz
Packed: 21 x 15 cm / 8.2 x 6“
Temperature: -17°C / 1°F
Filling: Texpedloft Microfiber.
R-value: 4.9

Water… if your corridor camping you most likely will not need to treat your water. Check in with the backcountry before you go and they will have the water availability postings. If you want to ensure your safe.. bring some iodine or other small water treatment just in case.. I've had my eye on this as another alternate:
http://sawyerproducts.com/SP131.htm

My 2 long cents.. happy hiking.. maybe i'll see in the Canyon May 2012

I'm going to second Sumi on everything.

AZ and the desert (This includes the GC) are a different breed of backpacking than many people are used to. The nice thing is, assuming you aren't camping on the Rims, your insulation needs are minimal (at worse you'll just have an uncomfortable night if the weather turns unseasonably cold).

This site (BEWARE THE AUTO-PLAY SOUND!) has a better and more accurate assessment of the Canyon's weather. It's a gov't source you can trust!
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/weather-condition.htm#CP_JUMP_155163

And to reiterate, water and heat will be far more of a concern than cold and these are issues you need to educate yourself on. Health concerns from cold are pretty easy to understand, but dehydration and heat stroke are far more subtle and affect the brain making it even harder to recognize.

It should be a great trip, just remember the GC is far more rugged than many people give it credit.

EDIT: As an example, today is Jan 1, 2012 and the temperatures were in the high 50s on the South Rim, lows in the low 20s. Imagine what 5 months of the earth pointing the canyon closer to the Sun could do to those desert temps!