Cottage Stagnation and Recent Gems

[Miguel Arboleda]

While I don't like dwelling too long on the negative aspects of what someone writes in a forum, because I believe people are far more complex and broad in the spectrum of their thoughts and beliefs than is possible to spell out in a single article or post, I do find it a little disconcerting that Ryan wrote such a provocative article for everyone here to see, most likely deliberately upsetting the furniture, then barely joins in the ensuing uproar. It seems a bit one-sided to me. Ryan, I can understand if you busy and just don't have the time to be too active here, but then why toss a bomb into a community just now? Did you mean to engage in a true discussion, or just upset a lot of people? Now we have people speculating on what you intended and what you said, without having you clearing your end up. Why?

If I may be a bit harsh simply because I feel that honesty all around is necessary, considering that BPL itself is a UL cottage industry "product" and there have been a lot of unhappy customers, while at the same time the promised "improvements" almost never seem to materialize, except for a few spurts here and there, how is it that the article can claim legitimacy in criticizing other UL cottage industries for "lack of innovation" and "dull scissors"? BPL now most definitely faces a crisis that it has never faced before, in great part because it doesn't seem to have direction and doesn't live up to the promises it has made to its customers. Ryan's and other BPL originators' almost complete lack of involvement in the community these days certainly seems to show a waning interest in their own product. For some reason there is this unspoken agreement that criticizing UL manufacturers' products and services is perfectly fine, but anything BPL is off limits and must be regarded as almost sacred. Why? Why, every time someone voices frustration with the way things are run here, is there always this pitchfork reaction that the dissenter somehow is a monster? If any other manufacturer acted this way they'd quickly lose their customer base and most likely go out of business. I've asked it before and ask it again, what exactly are members paying for? The forums? I feel the forums are self-generating and BPL exists and is popular BECAUSE of people's volunteered contributions, not the other way around. The store? What store? When there was a store, what products? For YEARS members had to put up with excuses for why the products they wanted were never in stock and that they were supposed to be understanding because the BPL store was a cottage industry store. When products came in members had to literally be at their keyboards, fingers on their mice, ready to click "buy" before the entire stock was gone within one hour. How absurd can you get? The wiki? What wiki? The articles? Last year there was a burst of activity… now it seems to have puttered out again. We've even lost some of our most prolific and beloved writers.

So isn't that like throwing stones if you live in a glass house?

Don't get me wrong. I haven't been on BPL this long because of gear, but because of the community and the wonderful people, including Ryan, here. The gear just makes it fun and provides a common point of discourse. I'd like to feel that I want to remain committed to BPL and to see it grow in a positive direction. To me the community here is precious, something that I rarely find. I don't want to lose it or to see it disintegrate into chaos and then die, as I've seen two beloved communities come to (one of which I was a moderator) in the past. I'm even thinking of what I can do to help bring life back into BPL and am thinking of creating a UL cartoon series that can be one thing people look forward to reading regularly. But I have to feel that the effort put into creating such a thing is worth it and will be appreciated. BPL itself has to be the fulcrum which SUPPORTS the entire UL industry, especially since this is where a lot of people's introduction to and long-term interest in UL starts and maintains itself. I'd like to see other members offer similar efforts on their part, instead of just criticizing without contributing anything. A community cannot exist without members thinking on their part and actually doing something about their ideas. That, of course, also means that BPL itself has to actively encourage people to be active and to support their efforts, instead of throwing stones. I'm not sure what Ryan hoped to gain by publishing the article, though the discussion it has started might be something constructive, after all.

Perhaps there needs to be an understanding about who belongs to whom… does BPL belong to the community, or does, as is so often suggested, does the community belong to BPL and Ryan? I don't think it can go both ways. I certainly don't feel and have no desire to be part of something businesslike, where I am treated like an employee having to take direction from the "boss". I post strong sentiments here often because I feel I am an equal contributor and feel that what I say and what others say are important and helpful (well, perhaps not always…) in the ongoing life of the community. What connection this has with the business aspect of BPL is the big question, and perhaps what Ryan needs to figure out, if that is possible without being self-contradicting.

All in all, what I'd like to see is BPL being as vital as once was, with the same enthusiasm and love that drove it for all those years. Along with that I'd like to see the strong conviviality and mutual support between BPL and the UL manufacturers that was the touchstone of everything that has happened here and brought it all to where we all are today, grow deeper and richer. It would be a shame to see bonds broken and resentment rule the day. I believe it is a sign of true maturity when people who have been together a long while learn how to stay together longer instead of descending into bickering. Think why so many former members have let their memberships lapse. There is a reason for that.

[Diplomatic Mike]

It's the time of year when old men reflect on the past, and everything seemed better.
I include myself in that. :)

[Nick Gatel]

First of all, who is the cottage industry? How do we define it? Should have started with that. But lets consider some gear that I would say is cottage industry (which is usually defined as made at home by family members, using equipment they own).

Cat Trowel — Love this little gem. Yes, it looks home made and not stamped by a big machine. Light and very functional. Highly Recommended. Great follow-up on email order.

Caldera Cone — Okay simple but highly effective. I use one 99% of the time, but then I don't "cook." Considering the price point, don't expect it to last forever. The weak point is the dove-tail joint of the cone. You have to be careful with it. My first was for a Snow Peak cup/pot. Loved it. Then I got one with the Heiny can. Hated the plastic container, as it was unnecessary weight, but it did protect the cone. So I discarded the container and damaged the dove-tail after several trips. My fault. So then I bought a Foster set up that the cone fit into the can. Also got the Esbit Graham Cracker. Highly Recommended!

Shelters — I have many.

Tarp Tent (Scarp 1). Excellent. Use it only in winter/snow. Takes a while to get good at setting it up quickly. Quality product and great customer service.

Six Moons Wild Oasis — I just don't care for this particular design. Many people do. But construction is top notch.

Generic Poncho Tarp – Nylon. Used it for years. Works great. Lighter versions available. Service dependent upon retailer purchased from.

GoLite Poncho Tarp – Same as above. Lighter. Service dependent on retailer purchased from.

MLD SilNylon Pro Tarp – Same as above, even lighter. Better design. Also use a Side zip Soul Bivy with it. Excellent quality. Good customer Service.

BPL Nano Tarp. Highly recommended by Ryan Jordan. Poor quality control on material selection, color runs and one large green splot in the material. Bonded seams. Very expensive at the time (got a membership discount). Tie-outs use two sewn strips, nowhere near the quality of a zPacks Hexamid sewing & reinforcement. I bought this to replace my GG SpinnTwinn based on weight. I like the SpinnTwinn better, it is larger, just heavier. Customer Sevice – NONE.

GG SpinnTwinn. Highly recommended unless you want something much lighter and more expensive. Customer service outstanding.

ZPacks Hexamid (no net) plus cuben poncho/groundsheet = light, light, light. Dream to set up. Prior to this I would not put up a shelter if there was a slight chance of rain. I would take my chances. This sets up so quickly, I set it up if a slight chance of rain. Great coverage. Super light. The poncho/ground sheet has clips that turn it into a bathtub floor. Really nice. Small zipper on each side turn it into a small poncho. Large enough to cover you and your pack, but not a big flowing cape like most poncho/tarps that catch on every stray branch. Hood works well. Very innovative integration. Tie outs much better than BPL Nano Tarp. Complete set-up cost less than what BPL was selling the Nano Tarp alone ($330 vs. $370). Top Notch Service.

Backpacks – over the past 40+ plus years I have purchased a few, to include several UL packs. On the UL front I am not entirely thrilled about a light pack to carry all my gear. What is comfort to some maybe pain to others. But I have a couple I use for short trips and they work. Here is the thing about these packs: if you buy a pack for around $100 don't expect all kinds of features or bomber construction. I don't think most people do. I own a GG Murmur and a zPacks small Zero. They are minimal for minimal loads. Just don't try and carry more than 10lbs in them and they are okay. Actually I am liking the simplicity of the Zero. Ryan Jordan reviewed a Blast 18 a little over a year ago with high compliments and gave it a "Recommended" rating. This rating also included this 'con,'

"Construction techniques and styling reflect classic young cottage "garage manufacturing". The quality is high and the pack is well sewn, but makes use of simple construction techniques that limit shaping and styling options"

Hmm, this is a large cuben stuff sack with straps for $105, very similar to the zero. The goal was simplicity… not shaping and styling. My opinion.

I also have a GG Mariposa Plus and at one time owned a ULA Conduit and Ohm. I did not like the functionality of the ULA packs (personal preference), but always receive top notch service from ULA. Construction was good.

Quilts – I have three

An early Tim Marshall Epiphany Cuben. This is my 'go to' quilt. Light and I can deal with the vapor barrier effect of cuben. Well sewn and simple construction techniques, as Ryan would say. The zipper at the bottom and bottom draw-string vent hole are nice touches. Construction is comparable to my BPL 60 quilt. Customer service is more than excellent, it is "far exceeds expectations."

Nanutak Arc Specialist – excellent construction with some custom options. This is a really, really nice quilt. Just heavier than the Marshall quilt. I now longer use my WM Ultralight for colder weather, I combine this quilt with the Marshall. Customer service is excellent.

BPL 60. I bought this used. It is a good quilt for its temperature rating. Had I been the original owner, I would be up the creek without a paddle for customer service.

Other gear —

BPL Merino Hoody — nice piece of gear. But find myself always taking my Mountain Hard Wear Cliffer LS T (merino wool/poly)instead for most trips outside of summer. Just works nicer. The BPL Hoody is made in Fiji. I hated the logo on it, but it fell off during the first washing :). Customer Service = None

BPL Thorofarer shirt and pants. Highly recommended by Ryan Jordan. Two of the worst pieces of clothing I have ever purchased. Sweated like a pig in 70 degree weather with no humidity. Wore the pants once and sold them. Wore the shirt on 3 trips. Most of the BPL logo has fallen off after 3 washes. The zipper pocket is falling apart already. Made in China. Made in China. Shame on BPL. No Customer service.

---

McHale Packs… okay you know I am partial to this piece of gear. No one has ever provided me the level of service that Dan has. And no pack has fitted as well or carried as comfortably. Period. But is he part of the cottage industry? Maybe by association or by his posts here. These packs are not manufactured, they are custom built. Yes, you need to stick with his designs but each one is very custom. Can you even attempt to compare his construction quality to another manufacturer? Nope, No comparison. When I had my LBP demo, Dan made me turn it inside out to inspect the construction and to understand how his suspension system worked. He is that focused on quality. Will he build anything you want? No. If he puts his name on the label it has to meet his high standards.

By the way, read this quote from the Complete Walker IV (pg 35-36), I think it was written by Colin Fletcher, not Chip Rawlins because it is the similar section from Complete Walker III.

"The pricing system that's evolved in response falls into three categories. The best off-the-shelf gear is called high-end…Then there is the solid, though not necessarily stolid, midrange…Still lower there lurks what is called price-point gear…

There is also the realm of the specialized and hair-raisingly expensive,… – that is generally called trick. Beyond trick is custom, the sweet stratosphere of McHale Packs and Limmer Boots. True custom gear might set you back now, but also might last a lifetime."

Edited to fix a few grammar errors. I also noticed that I emphasized CUSTOMER SERVICE for all these vendors. Hmm…

[Roger Caffin]

> define more accurate
I can align my compass with my map to about one degree.

I am quite sure I can't align my GPS like that: it does not have really straight sides or a see-through base.

> Let's sit down in the middle of the forest, nothing to see but trees, and plot our location.
Don't want to, don't need to.

I am not fussed about exactly where on the map in the middle of thick forest I might be. What I am concerned about is where I am going. I can set my compass to a bearing and travel through very thick forest and come out where I want to. We do that a LOT here in the Blue Mountains: it's forested plateau country.

But more to the point, what we are talking about here is navigation skill (we call it 'bush skill'). You don't get that out of a GPS.

Yes, I have a simple GPS. It stays home most (almost all) of the time. It's far too clumsy compared with a magnetic compass in the field. And it has stuffed up plenty of times too: it put me on the opposite (wrong) side of an estuary once …

Cheers

[James Marco]

I will agree with Roger. GPS tells you exactly where you are. Verry accuratly.

This is perhaps the only advantage to GPS. I don't really care exactly where I am. I am on the trail to someplace. The trail is not accuratly represented on ANY map except at such detail that I don't want to carry that big of a map. Canoeing makes a good example: In a fog bank it gets so I cannot see the prow of the boat, 'cep as a barely discernable marker. A simple compass lets me paddle from point A to point B. It is a anolog marker that is correct 99.9% of the time. Only a degree or two off the rest. (Many rocks and geologic features will force the compas off a degree or two in the ADK's.) I know that even though I am blind, I am paddling toward the correct location whenever I care to check. The constant course corrections are like walking, you just make them without thinking. The GPS is NOT suitable for this work. I really don't care where I am. I know my heading. My bearing will vary from spot to spot, depending on wind and current. I guess at these…they have a term for that, but I forget.

Anyway, GPS units do not satisfy me. They are heavy, need batteries, and simply do not do as good a job. I much prefer to simply watch my little compass.

[Nick Gatel]

>> (Compasses) …. are more accurate… (than a GPS) <<

OK Roger, define more accurate. Maybe if all I want to know is where magnetic north is you might be right but if I actually want to know my location?

Let's sit down in the middle of the forest, nothing to see but trees, and plot our location. I can transfer my "exact" location to my map in seconds (in the dark… in the fog…) with my GPS. Using a compass… good luck!

Yes it's an electronic device and might fail but you could just as easily be sitting on top of an iron ore deposit with your compass.

Sometimes you just have to admit that innovation is a good thing (and you can carry the old mouse trap as a backup).

---

Mike,

I have some experience with GPS, although I am not a big fan. Yes in fog or a white out, a GPS can be a better option. But if you are in a forest and don't know where you are with a compass or a GPS you… well that should never happen! You should already know "about where" you are and where you are heading. If you are actually navigating, then you know exactly where you are.

Can you shoot an azmith (take a bearing) with a GPS? If you are in a deep gorge will it tell you where you are?

If I know where magnetic north is (my compass) then I can quickly find out where I am. I orient the map to magnetic north, shoot my azmiths and I know where I am. I could care less about declination.

The owners manual for my Garmin eTrex HCx says the compass is accurate to +/- 5 degrees. My Military lensatic compass is accurate to +/- 40 mils (2.25 degrees).

A military issue lensatic compass illuminates at night without a battery very well for 10 years. It has tritium vials in it, which have a half life of 12.5 years.

The manual also says the GPS is accurate to 10 meters (33 feet). Most of the time I can do much better triangulating my position with a lensatic. Remember a good spotter can guide/drop artillery rounds very accurately with his lensatic compass.

My manual says the battery life is 25 hours. How many sets of batteries will I need if I am traveling cross country for 2 weeks off trail?

Temperature – My Garmin is good down to 5F, the lensatic down to -50F. Both are good to around 150F.

The Garmin is water resistant. The compass is water proof.

What happens if the GPS software crashes, an electron gets lost or something goes wrong in the circuit board?

With a GPS or a Compass you need a map! 99% of the time the map is all I need anyway. For me, the compass is much more reliable, so I leave the GPS at home. Actually it was a gift from my wife so I take in on day hikes with her so feels good about the gift.

This is Backpacking Light, we do not carry redundant gear :)

Hey, there is nothing wrong with a GPS. HYOH!

Edit: both weigh 5.3 ounces.

[Diplomatic Mike]

I wasn't meaning the GPS, Nick. I'm a map and compass man myself. I only carry a GPS in winter, when navigating off mountains in a white out could mean life and death.

I was poking fun at the way everything seemed better when we were younger, and how things can go full circle in our minds. I'm glad to find out that i have only ever been boutique hiking though, as i can usually re-supply regularly.;)

[Nick Gatel]

Mike,

I have been playing around with the GPS and Topo Map application on my iPhone. Actually it is innovative. Battery is an issue. But in the back country, I just want something I can trust 100% of the time. Perhaps it is just being an old fart. Plus there are things a compass can do and a GPS cannot do… and visa versa.

Regarding "boutique hiking" – well, nothing wrong with it if that is what someone wants. But let me think… hike in the Sierras for 12 days and go visit a town or supply point with lots of people every 3 or 4 days; or go 12 days and see no one. I like to plan my hikes based on where I want to go or see, not based on what my pack limits me to do.

Don't know if you are familiar with California. It is more than 5 times as large as Scotland, has 13 peaks over 14,000 feet and the lowest desert (-232 feet) in the US. The Sierra Nevada mountains are 400 miles long and there are dozens upon dozens of smaller mountain ranges in the state. We have 25,000 square miles of desert. No reason to be visiting cities or supply points on holiday :)

[Diplomatic Mike]

Nick.
If i lived in a country big enough, i wouldn't re-supply either. :)
However, i wouldn't call a trek over/through the Scottish mountains 'boutique', even if you re-supply every 4 days. There aren't many official trails, and you need to be able to navigate. Of course, you don't need to re-supply. You can stay in the mountains, and carry all your food with you.

[David Goodyear]

Try this. Sit down for lunch with your GPS on and after lunch look at the track log.

We found That using GPS for seaching to be very frustrating, but shooting an azmuth with a good compass – very accurate.

You might reconsider the accuracy of a gps – it may tell you you are on that mountain while you are falling off.

It's a tool – know the limitations.

Enjoy,

Dave

[Diplomatic Mike]

Following a track on the GPS in a white-out. I was aiming for a cliff edge that i could 'handrail' onto safer ground. Knowing a cliff was ahead, i was also throwing snow balls in front of me to give a visual reference point. I didn't want to step over the edge. A snowball didn't land in front of me, and i knew it had gone over the edge. According to my GPS, i still had a distance to go!

[Chris Townsend]

Interesting discussion with good points on both sides. I usually carry both a compass and a GPS. I must admit the latter is usually for speed and convenience. I can glance at it and see where I am in thick mist (common in Scotland) or dense forest (not that uncommon in Scotland). On the Scottish hills trails are often sketchy or non-existent, visibility is often minimal and there are plenty of cliffs and gullies so you need to know where you are and have good navigation skills. I've hiked and skied in the High Sierra, including on the Pacific Crest Trail and on a 500 mile round trip, and I can say that hiking there is much, much easier than in the Scottish Highlands due to the weather, open terrain and well-maintained trails. Even when off trail or when the trails are snow covered navigation is simple. On my 500 mile hike in the High Sierra I never used my compass once (and didn't carry a GPS back then). In the Scottish Highlands I use a compass frequently. It's also possible to hike for a week without resupplying anyway in the Highlands – I've done it several times.

Here's an example of how GPS can be useful and save time. Last year I hiked the Pacific Northwest Trail. In places I was on sketchy trails in dense forest. I wanted to find a junction and follow another sketchy trail, as this linked up with a better trail further along. On a couple of occasions I overshot the junction, backtracked, and overshot the junction again because there wasn't actually anything visible on the ground. The GPS map (I really think that to fully utilise GPS one with topo mapping is needed) showed where the junction was and the direction of the invisible trail so I used that to find the turn-off and then follow the line of the trail until signs of it appeared.

Modern GPS units are tough and have good battery life. Last February I hiked the 217 mile Southern Upland Way in southern Scotland. I was hiking it for a web site and needed a GPS route for the whole trail so I had a SatMap switched on in the top pocket of my pack the whole way. The batteries lasted 3-4 days. The weather was wet and the GPS was often damp at the end of the day. However the SatMap is waterproof (and shockproof) so this wasn't a problem.

[Mike W]

…

[Diplomatic Mike]

Good post Chris.
Do you think your 'boutique hiking' experience in Scotland helped you on the real hiking in the US? ;)

Hiking all the Munros in one go must be so easy. I'm surprised Nick hasn't come across and done it in a weekend.

[Stephen M]

I am with Mike and Chris on the use of GPS.

I hike a lot in Ireland and Scotland and trails are non existent in most areas and have had to use GPS to navigate on a number of occasions in white out conditions.

[CW]

I started with a Garmin Legend from the original eTrex line. After enough experience with it losing signal I upgraded to a Garmin GpsMap 60. Signal was much better but I found myself rarely using it because I spent most of my time on the AT (you need neither map & compass nor GPS on the AT). As I started spending more time in Wilderness areas and on lesser used trails or off trail I moved back to carrying a compass and custom maps. After a few mishaps, though, due to dense tree cover and being unable to sight any landmarks, I've started carrying a Foretrex 301. I primarily use it for tracking routes, especially off trail in the Rockies, but it also comes in quite handy when I need to confirm I'm where I think I am on my map.

[Stephen M]

I always carry a map and compass and its my prefered method of navigation, I use View Ranger Mapping on a Motorla Defy WPRugged phone(with 2 spare batteries) some times I leave it switched off and other times I will leave it on to record a track.

[Tom Clark]

Hey guys,
Compass, map, GPS, smartphone, years of experience…none of those seem to help keep this thread on track, however open-ended it was when it started. ;)

Tom

[Richard Scruggs]

To close the circle and return to the thread's path, when is someone going to innovate the GPS to include a comforting voice giving directions?

Like, "Go a little bit to the left. Good. Now go straight ahead. Wow! You're doing just great! You deserve a reward, so dig out some of those M&M's."

[Miguel Arboleda]

To close the circle and return to the thread's path, when is someone going to innovate the GPS to include a comforting voice giving directions?

Panasonic has done just that with their "TabiNavi" traveler's GPS here in Japan (only sold in Japan in Japanese). I'm not sure if the Sony NV-U37 does this. I don' think so.

[t.darrah]

Maybe the GPS specific posts could be moved to a topic specific thread so the the OP could better remain on topic – "Cottage Stagnation and Recent Gems"!

[Michael Fogarty]

I agree with some of what Ryan says mainly slowing down on needing to purchase the latest and greatest gear. Its a never ending sickness, that is really unnecessary for the most part.

I would disagree on some of the points on the cottage gear makers though, and the HMG Porter pack, (yes I own one too) First off it is a nice pack, but nothing really groundbreaking with it. A few things are actually borrowed or copied from McHale. Reinforcement stitching on the Porter is not the best I've seen. This is just my observations and not a criticism of the Porter. It remains to be seen for myself as to whether the Porter will hump 30-35lbs, better than my McHale Merkibeiner (#1 choice) or the ULA Circuit.

[Mary D]

From what I saw on their site, I didn't think that much of the HMG Porter Pack, either. YMMV!

I am far more impressed by the Elemental Horizons Aquilo and the forthcoming Kalais (I hope I spelled that right). The Aquilo is the one that got the Highly Recommended rating in Will Rietveld's review (I hope I spelled Will's name correctly). I don't know how "innovative" this pack design is, but it has all the features I want in a pack and seems to be the first of the under-2-lb. framed packs to have the stays actually connected to the hip belt.

On the other hand, I'm not in the market for a pack, because my almost 7-year-old pack from Six Moon Designs (2005 Comet, unfortunately discontinued) is still holding up just fine and is still very comfortable for me. I've had as much as 35 lbs. in it–my shoulders, back and hips felt fine, although my knees and feet were screaming–but most of my trips I'm under 25 lbs.

I will, however, be looking for a pack for my 12-year-old grandson in the spring, and the Kalais might be one of those on my list. Like me, he needs a good supportive frame with load lifters (evidently my pressure-sensitive shoulders are hereditary), but not a 3 1/2 to 4 lb. pack such as most of the "youth" packs on the market.

[John G]

I personally think the ripstop looks WAY cooler – but I have a non-ripstop ”packcloth” pack from the 1970's with no rips and only a few small spots of wear through where there was something hard on the inside at that position most of the time to provide the rocks something to abrade the fabric against.
I think the pack cloth is 420 denier. The pack weighs 3.0 lbs. It had 1 medium sized pocket and a simple flap lid. It has dense strap and belt padding that doesn't feel cushy, but carries lots of weight without digging in.
Wish someone still made simple durable packs…

[Andrew F]

John, if you want a burly pack without many features and aren't too concerned about weight, check out Cold Cold World. http://coldcoldworldpacks.com/

Andrew

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