Tarptent Notch

[kevperro .]

Don't be modest Henry… this tent is perfect! It isn't a gigantic tent by design. If you want room to roam get the Rainbow but the Notch is the perfect design for my needs.

[Nigel Healy]

I see the Notch solid inner option is now on the TT's website for ordering.

Has anyone got one yet (with the part-sold inner) and if any real-life testing?

[Sergiy Sosnytskiy]

I had not enough patience to wait for real springtime, so the morning after my first night in Notch was
like that.
At night, it was about -10C or a bit lower. Snow was about 30 cm (1 foot) deep, so I had a bit of digging using my CCF seat-pad (yellow thingy) as a shovel.
On the third (last) night there was about of 1 m (3-4 feet) of snow, and my 'shovel' was not up to the task. So I just had compacted the snow with my feet and used twigs instead of stakes. Here is a picture of the third morning.

[Larry M]

My solid inner is on its way, will arrive on tomorrow.

[josh wagner]

that is a very good looking tent henry/franco…

[Nigel Healy]

Larry please do post on your experiences with the solid inner.

Has anyone pitched in strong winds yet? The steepness of the angle at porch and the resulting upwards force on the peg there is something, on paper, which worries me. I know there are guys from the top of the poles to keep the tent on the ground but will the porch stay in place?

I own one tent, a Tera Nova Laser Competition, about 1Kg. Its two main problems are flappiness from the long unsupported flysheet between the central pols and the ends towards the sides (how can you tension a curve? You can't!), and complete lack of fly ventilation at the roofline (combined with shallow angle of the fly is a condensation issue the solid inner mostly solves). The tent though has never failed. I'm currently considering two options, one is to consider the Notch as warmer-weather tent only and keep my TN LC for colder weather, and so really allow the inner to be mesh (its original design), or to consider it for all year and sell my TN LC and then either go with a Notch only with solid inner or with both solid and mesh inners.

My sleeping bag system, I extended it recently down to -20C but with a bag weight increase to 1.4Kg.

A fully solid inner is of more interest than the partially solid that has been selected. The more solid the greater the temp delta from outside and so the lighter the sleeping bag or the lower the temps for a given pack weight.

I don't need to make any decision til June so looking at user reviews. I have a little concern with the inner being too narrow and a SS1 fallback but SS1 doesn't offer any solid inner so less of an option in colder conditions.

[Stephen M]

Hi Nigel,

The SS1 will have a solid inner much the same as the Notch as an extra.

Cheers,

Stephen

p.s. I have ordered an SS1 myself.

[Nigel Healy]

Stephen thanks for that, I'd missed that news!

SS1 is much less of a compromise on space and not a whole lot more weight or cost. I know many are interested in the Notch to minimize pitch footprint space for confined areas but I've never had that problem. This was my tent BEFORE my TN LC

http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m421/NigelHealy/Brompton/Lakes%20March%2008/DSC00244.jpg
with vast space
http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m421/NigelHealy/Brompton/Lakes%20March%2008/DSC00249.jpg

I then had an epiphany and realized I wanted to go lightweight and into colder temps and I'm still on that journey. My foot has a problem which is tending to keep my hiking to short and not carrying camping so its been mostly bike-camping (for which you can carry a huge tent if you want), but I'm thinking that is footwear cause so trying some different shoes out and hope to get back to backpacking light by autumn. So no hurry to buy a Notch at the moment.

[Stephen M]

Hi Nigel,

Thats a shame about your foot, hope it works out ok.

The Ss1 arrived today and its very nice, there is absolutley loads of space.

I will be trying it out this weekend on my first US trip.

Cheers,

Stephen

[tomba]

In case a trekking pole is broken or lost in a creek crossing on a long solo hike, is it feasible to set up Notch with only one pole?

[Nigel Healy]

good question. If you're worried about broken/lost trekking pole you can always buy the optional pole kit for the Notch, bring one of the two adds 2oz and folds no bigger than the Notch when packed. Such poles I would think could also possibly break but be an easier repaired with one of those metal sleeve placed over the break.

I don't know the answer but I'm thinking its going to a limitation exercise like push the remaining pole up higher, pull out the pegs further apart away from the remaining pole and accept some sag in places, possible get some use from any longer section of your broken pole, you'll probably be fine if not too windy.

I'm sure if you wait long enough Franco will have a video/photo for you!

If you are in forest and have knife then cut some wood to length? Use some clothing to round out the sharpness of the wood to protect tent? Or, feed guy through roof of tent and tie between trees??? Or, use existing guy, instead of peg to ground tie at height to tree to pull up??

Henry is showing as closed for a long weekend at the moment.

[Sergiy Sosnytskiy]

If the substitute piece of wood is less than 1-1.5" thick, I would not bother putting clothing between it and the tent. The place with a grommet for a pole is made of much more durable stuff than silnylon.

[Nigel Healy]

if you have knife then you can ensure its thickness and shape at the wood-fly contact. My knife can do wood, metal, has a small file to shape. Camp DIY.

I'd say the most difficult part is finding a piece thick enough and straight enough, these usually contradictory tree growth, you can can use a much thicker bent piece and arch it away from the inner but it will tend to rotate, but again, use what you have to keep it in place, some guy and whatever remains of the broken pole.

"Where's there a will there's a way".

It is much easier to construct a straight-ish peice from wood than say other tent designs using specialist hoops, and borrows from tarp and hammock ideas.

The more challenging scenario is no wood, in wind, snow loading to resolve. Actually that is one reason to buy the TT poleset, just in case.

In UK, due to sheep, below treeline is still usually tree-less.

[Stillalive]

Hi
for your feet problem,have you ever tried orthopedic sole???it did wonders for my wife.She wasn't able to walk more than 10km a day,even on easy surface.Now she can walk 30 km with 3000ft elevation!!

[Nigel Healy]

it doesn't seem to be the sole of the shoe because Keen sandals are fairly harsh its the top of the shoe which is forcing pain, so i think its a shoe fit problem. The bone has increase in size around a fracture and simply being pained by the constraint of the too-tight shoe.

I've recently got some Inov8 Roclite 315 and going up 1/2 size and the pliable upper seems to have solved the problem, which in my mind is basically a solid-upper equivalent of Keen sandals (but I'm sure there's much to it).

The issue is only at the >10 mile /day type range, I walked back from the airport Friday, 6 miles on road, no problem. (why would anyone pay a taxi $24 when you can walk and spend that $ on gear :) )

I also (back to Notch) don't walk with poles, I bought one when I broke my foot to use as weight-reducing stick and once the foot got better dont use the stick, but I'm thinking i might move to trekker poles for trail walking to reduce the weight of the feet via arms pushing down.

Between lowering my own body mass, lowering the pack weight (e.g. Notch 0.7Kg), better fitting shoes, and some trekking poles, I might get back to what i used to be able to do 10 years ago, I could do 20miles/day for days.

This is the only problem, the insides of me are strong, currently averaging 350miles and 30,000ft of climbing per week on a bike.

FYI the incident which broke my foot was biking up a very steep hill, my right foot slipped off the pedal and the weight (I was having to stand on the pedals and pull handlebars to get the force) of my left foot caused the cranks to rotate fast and wack the top of the foot, even though wearing stiff hiking boots the pedal managed to break bones on upper half. That break healed bad. The damage before that a car came round a corner quick and I had to jump from the road and landed bad on the sidewalk and that sprained the ankle but that healed. Then before that I was hiking in mountains and I dislodged a boulder and it chased me down the mountain and I jumped out of its way and fell 100ft, and the time before…… basically I should have been killed at least 5 times just haven't yet!

[Nigel Healy]

So…. after extensive research and thinking, I ordered a Notch with the solid inner option. Ordered with poles to use for biking, and next task is find some trekking poles to use for walking. Actually the main thing which decided me was some new shoes, i solved a foot pain problem this last few weeks.

I am visiting UK in September, I intend to use the Notch in UK then and bring back to US my UK PHD sleeping bags then use the Notch in California.

Thanks in particular to Franco, the videos, photos and extensive email replies absolutely dwarfs the relatively little information on tarptent.com

[Nigel Healy]

So I've watched the video of Henry lowering the poles from the recommended 110cm-115cm to lower the fly for windier weather, does anyone know what is the SHORTEST length one should seek from a trekking pole to allow this lowering? Just from looking at Henry lower the pole it looks like say 10cm lowering? So would be 100cm short pole height?

[Jason Ferrari]

I have fixed poles at 120cm that can partially collapse to about 105cm. I found that at 105cm it is difficult for me to get a taught ridge line between the poles unless I pitch the vestibules at a steeper angle – even then it's not as taught. 110cm seems to be the lowest I can go. I ended up drilling some holes in my pole handles that allow 110 and 115 stopping points. Works great so far.

I spent three days over spring break in heavy rain. One night it poured for four hours with a few gusts over 50mph and I had no rain splash get inside. I did raise one of the poles to 115cm to compensate for the sagging sil-nylon. Worked perfectly and i didn't need to leave my tent.

I think I will be investing in different stakes to use at the tent ends. In wet ground (which is all I've had since receiving the Notch) the ends pull free very easily. I had to place heavy rocks on top of the end stakes after a gust pulled an end free. I'm pretty sure better stakes will resolve this – and it only happened during one of the +50mph gusts. overall I was very pleased with the tent in bad weather as well as good :-)

[Nigel Healy]

Jason, very valuable experiences thanks. I did get an email back from the same question to TT from Henry, which is basically yes 105cm is the minimum.

I'd not thought of deliberately pitching a little lower and then extending the pole to tension a saggy silnylon. Useful tip!

Puzzled how you make a fixed pole vary in height? What pole is that? I was thinking of the Black Diamond Distance FL pole. My body height seems to match the 120cm pole which happens to cover the range required for the Notch (20cm lower to 100cm which as you and Henry say is absolute lowest up to 115cm). So for example it can be raised to 120cm from inside to help with saggy silnylon. I am total poles newbie so to avoid a very stupid mistake on my part my plan was to pitch the Notch (I had delivered today!) in the garden, I got with TT's poles) and just experiment myself, dig some little holes in the garden to simulate a shorter pole, measure it all, then go down to REI and measure the poles to be 100% sure it will be a good fit.

Yes, different stakes, I've done that with all my shelters. I've usually used stronger longer ones for the guy lines to do the job of "tent on ground". Yes, pegs pulling out of soft ground, I was thinking of that also pre-purchase, its a problem I'm fully aware of, and I discussed in another forum.

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/UTN/52136/URN/5/dt/4/srchdte/0/cp/2/v/1/sp/

The shape of the Notch has quite a few steep angles (helpful for condensation runoff) but obviously will tend to lead to peg-pulling tendencies. Tent ends? Is that where the struts are? I have ideas of my own to figure out, give me a few trips out and I'll not be a newbie so much. I don't know much about tent peg names currently but I know what the ones I want look like, basically longer to stay in in soft ground, thicker metal for less bending when being wacked, and a rounded end to wacking hard. I've also find some pegs you have more flexibility WHERE to put them – guy pegging specifically, but some pegs you don't. The Notch's first pegs are the vestibule ones, so you can use a strong peg there and move the pegging point to get a good grounding, then rotate around so the other vestibule pegging point also has a good grounding. Then the corner struts, which unfortunatel TOUGH you have little flexibility there, so ironically some toothpick pegs can find a better place than some thicker pegs, and FINALLY the guy pegs which is where you can do some serious grounding and I'd put the most metal in the ground, possibly have to use some additinal guying points to get some symmetry of tension.

[Jason Ferrari]

Hi Nigel,
I am pretty hard on my poles and opted for aluminum over carbon fiber. I have the BD distance poles which are similar to the distance FL without the adjustable handle. If I had known of the FLs when I bought my poles, I would have gone with them I think. The regular Distance poles collapse part way into the handle to loosen the inner wire so you can separate the 3 sections and break them down. I partially collapsed the handle at 110cm and again at 115cm and drilled a hole at each length for the locking "nub". This way it will lock into place at those lengths as well as the fully extended 120cm. It's hard to explain but I can snap a photo if it would help.

My only fear was drilling into the inner wire and cutting it. Fortunately that didn't happen. If you get the FLs though, you should be fine.

the "tent ends" I mentioned do indeed refer to the strut area. I thought the vestibule stakes would be the problem but so far they have been fine for me. Granted I have had 3 nights in the tent (well 5 if the back yard counts). I also thought about guy lines from the poles but haven't used or needed them yet.

Let me know what works for you. It'll be nice to hear from someone else with field use. I'll be out again next month for a few nights :-)

[Nigel Healy]

I've been searching for Alu vs Carbon views, there isn't really a consensus but I'm leaning towards Alu as cheaper and less prone to nasty breakage. Alu can be damaged too but you can bend a slight dent back and of course you've ruined a cheaper pole.

Yes, FL seems a better choice, but I only started looking recently, don't know when it came out.

Hmmm, so the Notch strut end pegs are pulling? I guess the short guys there are focusing the upwards force (longer guys = shallower angles), ISTR someone suggesting lengthening the string at the strut ends to reduce that problem? I might just play with that idea and try multiple guys. Tricky part is keeping the forces symmetric so the Notch doesn't sag. One trick is to guy the existing peg itself, place a peg further away and a short guy between the pegs? Thinking out loud so probably not intelligently.

guy lines from poles, absolutely, its your strongest attachment point for 2 reasons – you can go as far out as possible til you find a good place to peg, and the shallower angle means the peg gets less upward force. What guys would tend to do is minimize the force on the vestibule peg so it never comes out. Keeping vestibule peg in place means the Notch never "raises it knickers" to the wind. Ahead of field tests I'd default to not wanting a beefy peg on the vestibule as its one I'd catch my foot on entry/exit.

The Notch is my 6th tent I've owned but borrowed some before I bought, I've had 2 tents die old from use (the best cause), 1 tent die from it being a bad design and it would fall over and it broke itself, and I sold 1 tent as its design led to saggy bathtub so it became… a bathtub full of rain. The 5th tent has condensation issues and if the 6th tent is good then the 5th one can get sold.

[Franco Darioli]

Jason
Take a look at the 8" Easton.
There is a lot of difference in holding power between those and the 6" version.
BTW, they should be inserted this way:

(I mean the angle…)
Added…
To make it a bit clearer
yes if you insert an 8" peg only 4" you are using a 4" peg..
(translation: shove them pegs fully in but at aprox that angle, not straight down)

Someone else mentioned a problem having the end triangles sitting flat.
Usually that happens if the two ends are not parallel to each other.
Franco

[Nigel Healy]

Yes, THE ANGLE, although Franco it looks a little too leaning back? Franco left enough of the peg out to show the angle but you'd never have the peg that far protruding out the ground as a whipping gust wind will flick the tent flysheet and lasso the guyline upwards a little, then if the peg head is well above the ground then the guyline will slide up the peg a little and pull on it, that then opens the hole in the ground a little and then the next gust does a little more, the peg then gets progressively more vertical and so the lasso can ride up the peg a little more each time….. and over a hour or so pull the peg out of the ground. I'd say that's a lesson learned probably day-1 of windy camping.

The challenge in the real world is also those end pegs on the Notch design have little flexibility of location, what if there is a STONE at the right spot, that is one reason you don't get the ideal peg angle. Longer guys allow more latitude to find a gap between stones which allow the angle Franco has shown. On sandy ground you can break the stone with a strong peg and problem solved but usually the peg just gets bent, or if you're lucky just blunted.

For stone, substitute some broken soil, or sodden wet ground, etc, the point being you can't always put the peg in securely on short guys. My last shelter these connections near the fly were elasticated, a quasi solution but itself not perfect as the elastic never can get as tight a pitch, so was flappy noise, a longer guy being my preferred option to experiment.

Garden test pitches won't have this problem.

I hope to get some pics of the partially-solid Notch today online, there's very few online currently.

[Nigel Healy]

What are those clips on the inside of the inner near the pole top for?

[Dan Cherry]

I seem to recall Henry saying that they are for running a line between inside the tent to give you something from which to hang stuff, especially in the absence of interior pockets. I tried them out with that purpose in my SS2 in January and found it to be of use for my flashlight. I have since installed another 2 pc setup with a line lock in the middle in the SS1 I bought from TyTy last month and will try that out the next trip it goes on…

Disclaimer: My memory may be poor on this matter.

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