Ski clothing – lift served, resort style – Utah in January

Hmmm… Hope you're going to Deer Valley…

OK, so think layers. Everything you bring for backpacking would work at the temps., except for your shell, which you may want to use something heavier than your Houdini lest you catch it on branches or the corner of the lift. You do not need anything fancy. Note that clothing weight for alpine skiing is mostly irrelevant, and with the relatively dry cold, you'll feel warmer than skiing back east with less. Most people from the east overdress on the slopes–I know I did. Another dimension that differs is shelter: you have a wonderful opportunity to dry stuff at night, either in the condo's dryer, or simply near a radiator.

For hands, mittens will dry faster overnight, and bring two pairs. You can use glove liners inside to help with moisture. For pants, I'd go with non waterproof bibs, for the warmth and spindrift protection–no need for gore tex that time of year. Upper layers should be wicking and thin: you want something that dries quickly (you can bring 2 and alternate days). If you have something nice for bacpacking use that; if not, use the cheapest wicking synthetics you can find.

For boots my advice is to get good boots if you know what you're doing skiing-wise and can afford them, as all good resorts can fit your boots to their rentals as matter of course. All rentals feel 4x better in _your_ boots. Liners are a mater of preference, but they will affect the fit of the boot. And if you're dying to get a gizmo, get Happy Feet electric boot dryers–they work well and won't fry your boots.

Have a great trip!

Thanks Simon. As far as locale goes, I'll probably wind up at Powder Mountain, Snowbasin, and/or Wolf Creek since those are all near family living in Liberty. These are all new places that I've never been to which is cool.

Good to hear someone reiterate what I was thinking as far as clothing goes. The ski stores here stock these giant jackets and pants that just seem totally overkill. I used to goretex up for a trip out west, but the new stuff seems even more excessive and "rad".

I guess I have pretty much everything you mentioned except some "non waterproof" (I guess that means softshell) bibs and ski boots. I have softshell pants though, and I was planning to use them and just bring some plain old hardshell pants (not ski-specific) as backup. I was wondering if I should pick up a softshell jacket? I have a nice eVent hardshell, but softshell might be more comfortable-and I'd use it around town. I have tons of varying weight base and mid layers and I have a million gloves, but alas can't find any "ski gloves" in my closet. So ss jacket and ski gloves might be on my short list.

Another question–I'll be with my 10 y/o son so might want to carry an extra layer and snack for him. Daypack or fanny pack?

Brian,

A small daypack would be the best route. Fanny packs big enough to carry extra clothing pushes you too far out from the back rest of the lift chair, unless you want to be always loosening the buckle, swinging the fanny pack to your front and then back again after unloading.

A daypack can be swung to one side quickly by loosening one strap and swinging it around a bit and then back once unloaded. Be SURE to get a daypack with a waist belt.

As for clothing useable for backpacking and skiing, get either Gore-Tex or eVent.
Look at Cabela's PacLite GTX suit for $200. A great bargain for a good suit. I've had it for years and it gets a lot of use and still holds up like new. Get the parka one size larger to accomodate heavier insulating germents. And I recommend getting the Tall size for bettr butt coverage in the rain. GTX pants are great when you have to sit in wet chair lift seats.

Brian,

Get the best boots you can afford. Fit is crucial for good sking. By far the most important part of your ski kit.

Softshells have improved so much over the past few years that I'd go for a jacket and pants in that genre. I still ski in a lined eVent parka, but it's now overkill. And a softshell is great for spring skiing.

Day pack or a RIBZ front pack – perfect for your own stuff inbounds, and can be paired with a day pack if you have your son with you. See http://www.ribzwear.com/ Mystery Ranch makes the best ski packs: http://www.mysteryranch.com

Richard

The number one recommendation is a ski specific helmet. Many large resorts rent them, but plenty of smaller ones don't. This recommendation goes treble for any children you might be accompanying. Unless the temps are below 0F, you don't need a hat under the helmet.

As for mittens, they are OK for snowboarders and useful for saving your fingers when the temps go below 0F, but gloves are a better choice for skiing. If you're not going fast, windproof fleece gloves will work, but my preference for downhill skiing are full gauntlet mountaineering gloves with a keeper leash that goes around your wrist so you don't drop your gloves off the lift.

I wouldn't think that skiing in Utah in the deep of winter would require a waterproof jacket. If your jacket has big enough pockets, you can carry all you need without a pack (packs can easily become entangled on the chairs). I routinely carry a camera, one liter water bottle, paperback book, and snacks in my jacket pockets when skiing.

Here's what I wear for skiing at Montana Snowbowl where the daytime highs tend to be 10-20F during mid winter:

Top (from skin out):

Light merino or capeline shirt
Patagonia R1 pullover
Patagonia R2 fleece jacket
Patagonia Ascensionist or Dimension Parka (both are non WP softshells)

Bottom (from skin out):

Light meriono or capeline bottoms
Patagonia Speed Ascent Pants (softshell pants with an R2 liner)

Gloves: Hestra Gore-Tex Army gloves (the wrist leashes are wonderful)

For my eyes, RayBan sunglasses and a pair of clear lens goggles that I keep strapped to my helmet.

I don't use liner gloves, and I don't really care if the seat of my pants get wet from snow on the chairlift. However, if it were puking snow, I'd switch to GoreTex top and bottom as the final layer (wearing R1 pants on the bottom).

One note about eVent–it is not entirely windproof, and you can definitely feel the effect when you're moving at 50 MPH.

Ski specific pants invariably have thicker, more abrasion resistant fabric on the inside of the cuffs for a reason–ski edges are sharp, and they often come in contact with your pants. Also, depending on the conditions, falling on the slope can give you a very abrasive slide. I've seen plenty of lightweight rain and/or wind pants destroyed on the ski slopes.

Since I don't fall that won't be an issue. Yeah.

Good point, thanks for enabling more gear purchases.

Brian:

Because the areas you mention aren't large, and thus don't require an epic to get to the bottom, just put your lunch and extra layers in a cubby at the lodge or on a shelf somewhere–that's what we do up here in Montana. Believe me, riding the chairs with a pack isn't all that fun.

you wont find much overlap between hiking clothing and ski clothing.

I usually ski in just light polypro long johns, polypro sock liner, lightly insulated ski pants, a light wt 1/4 zip synthetic longsleeve shirt (LL Bean "microfleece" from 20 yrs ago) , helmet, and a waterproof/breathable shell. Even then I need to ventillate to cool down often. There is no such thing as waterproof and breathable when skiing for me, I need pit zips. And good waterproof mittens, my fingers are happy happy with mittens. Had to quit to warm up before with gloves when my hands would feel like in danger. Took me 10 yrs to switch and I was so freaking happy afterwards, hands were usually too hot. Bring a neck up in a pocket, but dont use unless gets stormy and really cold.

Depends on how athletically you ski though, YMMV. I never bring any additional layers skiing in bounds, and find a pack to be just really unnecessary and a drag to bring along in a resort unless need for carrying skis while hiking or carrying trekkers, etc. Kids cheap ski gear is over-insulated if they are athletic skiers too, they will be more in danger of overheating than needing any additional layers.

Todays rental boots are pretty good Im told, they are a hybrid. I have my own so dont know firsthand, but wife and kids never complain, and my kids ski expert terrain with me. Boots are all about a snug fit that transmits foot movement to the ski, without creating discomfort. The higher the level of skier, the more important boots and fit become. Elite racers may have their boot shells ground out for every toe inside as part of customization of fit. What you DONT want is to have to tighten the buckles too tight to get that tight fit, esp across instep as it will reduce circulation and fee will get cold. Thats where boots today with injection molded liners are worth their $$$$.

Carter, thanks for the detailed post.

I was pretty much on the same page with you until you mentioned that much insulation on your legs. I'll check out those Pati pants. I might need to rethink my leg insul. Preferably, I'd like to just wear what I know and can use again back East, but that tells me something about the total insulation needed. Thanks.

Good point on eyewear. I've dropped the ball there and won't ever do that again.

I've heard of those hestra gloves–gotta check them out.

True about event and wind, but let's look at that as a good thing most of the time!

Brian:

Lift-served skiing differs from XC-skiing, hiking, climbing, or biking in that your legs are only doing something remotely athletic for a limited amount of time, and then they are just hanging out in the elements as you ride the chair back up the mountain.

The speed ascent pants I mentioned have been replaced by the Northwall pants, which are hideously expensive. But still, these are the best pants I've ever used in the winter–they are warm, snag and abrasion-resistant, quick drying, stretchy, pretty much windproof, and have pockets (which is a big deal when you have to carry cash, your car keys, etc.).

You can go cheaper and be just as warm with a three layer system consisting of long johns as thick as you want, then R1 pants, then a shell pant of some sort. You can find cheaper imitations of the Patagonia R1 pants fairly easily because they're now a popular item with the military's special forces–I often see them on sale at Sierra Trading Post. Or if things are frigid, wear full-weight fleece pants (which seem to have disappeared from the market) under the shell pants.

For skiing on area, I prefer gloves that do not have removable liners–for the same amount of warmth, you get a lot more dexterity, which you need for fiddling with boots, showing your lift pass, zipping and unzipping, adjusting your pole straps, etc. I've also seen some ski poles in rental shops that have straps that couldn't possibly fit over big mittens.

I say that there is actually a lot of overlap between hiking/mountaineering and skiing clothes–it's just that you have to do your hiking in very cold weather. None of the clothes that I wear at the area are specifically designed for skiing (the patches on the inside pants cuff are a common feature on mountaineering pants to resist crampon gouges).

Martin, your post just made me do the math and realize that my favorite 1/4 zip fleece is a mere 12 yrs old. I don't think mine has 8 years left though…heck it's barely breathing…lol.

I agree that the pack is probably just a pain to carry, so thanks for discouraging that.

I understand what you are saying about boot fit. Maybe I should bring my pedicurist. She's pretty UL.

I skied for years in long underwear, and a pair of uninsulated shell pants. If it got really cold, I would add some sweat pants. Good to about 10 degrees.

If you don't ski much I would rent your hardgoods. If you intend to buy hardgoods then boots are most important as was said before. If you do buy boots do not buy online. You must try them on first and wear them around the shop for a while. Ask for the best bootfitter at the shop.

As for softgoods, I would make sure your top and bottom are waterproof to some extent even though you expect cold snow conditions. Especially your pants. I wear lightly insulated hardshell pants with capilene underneath all season long. If it's cold I wear basketball shorts underneath as well. If it's warm I open the thigh vents. My pants are pretty heavy but they take a lot of abuse (I ski patrol).

For lift-served skiing I wear a capilene top and either a softshell jacket (for temps above freezing) or a down-insulated waterproof coat (for below freezing, taking wind into account). Layering works, and should be doable with your existing backpacking garb, but a single down-filled outerlayer is more comfortable and warmer IMHO.

Looser fitting outerwear may look like excessive weight, but for skiing it generally is warmer and less restrictive.

Have fun!

Oh yeah, bag the daypack, but do keep an extra layer in the car. I wouldn't spent $$ on a helmet unless you ski regularly, ski out of control or very fast, spend time in the terrain park, are injury-prone or paranoid.

I'm a 3-season backpacker and in the winter, I ski, both X-country and downhill. We usually take a family ski trip out west somewhere for a week. My suggestions, for what they're worth.

If you don't already have skis/boots/etc. that you're attached to, rent them. If you're an intermediate skier, the resort's rentals will probably be just fine — quality of rental gear has improved a great deal and, frankly, they've always been better out west. If you want higher performance gear, do a little research on independent rental shops in town, most of them have different performance level packages ("demo skis"). They'll mix and match skis and boots depending on what you're looking for. Because of the airlines' high luggage fees, cost of renting and bringing are surprisingly close.

My son's 13 and he's a snowboarder (and hiker). He really prefers the boa boots, so if I can't find some to rent, we take his boots. He also takes his own helmet.

Otherwise, the only ski-specific gear item we take are our goggles.

You really, really don't need the $300 eVent jacket or a sophisticated set of leg layers. The criteria is to be warm enough on the lifts; once you're moving, it really won't matter that much. I almost always wear lightweight/UL merino baselayers, top and bottom. Beyond that, I just wear my everyday around-town down jacket (Marmot guide jacket) on really cold days. Warm dry days, I'll just wear my nanopuff, maybe throw on a softshell. On the bottom, I wear softshell pants. (I have a pair of REI Taku pants that I love for downhill skiing.)

My son's 13 and he's a snowboarder (he's also a hiker.) He wears similar layers as me except for decently waterproof pants since he's on his butt a lot. Target snowpants work perfectly fine. Kids don't sweat much and have much smaller body mass, so warmth is important, breathability not so much.

If it's really cold, mittens are warmer. We also take a few handwarmers for my son on really frigid days. My preference is thin merino liners (I have an older Smartwool set I use for backpacking) and lightweight down gloves.

I carry a small backpack (usually an REI Flash 18) when we're spring-skiing because we'll usually work our way to the upper elevation lifts and stay there and only come down at the end of the day. I don't bother at smaller resorts; I'll just leave a bag in the lodge.

Hope this helps.

You guys are fantastic. Thank you all.

A lot of good, rational answers.

If anyone wants to sell me some medium sized gear for a killer price, I'd like to talk.

disclaimer: didnt ready the entire thread.

Probably already mentioned several times, but I second springing for a soft shell. I prefer one without a windproof membrane as softshells allready are pretty windproof and they breath better without a windstopper membrane or whatever. Unless you are skiing warm/wet pacific northwest snow, I really think softshell is the only way to go.

I used to wear
-baselayer
-fleece
-insulated (thinsulate) waterproof breathable jacket

Currently wear
-baselayer
-MB thermwrap
-softshell

The new system seams just as warm if not warmer and is 100% better at temp. management. Check geartrade for deals. Lots of stuff for around $100.

http://www.geartrade.com/browse/mens-softshell-jackets#b&gender%5Bg_m%5D&