Who does not love a cigar in the woods?

[Marko Botsaris]

Travis, that is NOT the kind of fire I was talking about, and I think you know that!

Of course I was talking about the issue of "tourist fires", possibly with other "survival" uses such as toasted marshmallows and smores, and possibly even (God forbid) the singing of camp fire songs. It is obvious I was talking about the making of a fire as part of a functionless ritual, perhaps as a holdover from boy scout days, or perhaps from watching too many westerns. I hope it is clearI was not talking about the making of a fire as a necessary part of your trip.

On top of that I was saying *I* never need it. Anyone else can do as they like, especially if you don't plunk down 20 feet up wind from me. If you want to include an external fire as part of your necessary needs, more power too you. On the other had Andrew Skurka did his circuit of Alaska in temps from (I believe) down -15 or -20F without making external wood fires, so it isn't impossible to survive without it, even in Alaska much of the time, let alone in the Sierra Nevada. Still, in many environments it may be easier to rely on fire than to have to prepare for such conditions with extra gear. I give you that too. John Muir went backpacking with an overcoat and some matches.

But since you guys are, seemingly, deliberately misconstruing the issues for rant sakes, I give you the fire to keep warm(er). If my system failed I would do the same. However I get along quite well with the cooking part with my stoves – and just to stave off the next rant, no I do not mean I can cook an Elk in a Jetboil – I'll give you that one as well.

[Brian Crain]

"Come on Brian, it's 2014. We live in a society of "me me me". Rights of others? What are you, a socialist? ;)"

Great point! I wish it truly were a "me me me" society – as compared to what we have – one in which everyone applied a moderate amount of common sense as well as respect towards others – then we'd have everyone doing their own thing and minding their own business… instead of the "everyone will bend to my will, even if it is entirely insane" kind of armchair-activist mentality so many have.

For the record, I'm as far from a socialist as it gets in pretty much every regard! ;)

[Justin Baker]

A small cook fire is so easy, leaves very little ash, and is very easy to put out and clean up. With everyone on here so obsessed about saving weigh, it really confuses me why I'm one of the few people who utilizes fire for cooking. Fuel weight can really add up on longer trips.

[Kattt]

Justin, don't you know that it is better for the environment to have a fuel canister made, sold, shipped, filled, sold again, shipped, inventoried, stocked, bagged, transported home, used and then disposed, moved somewhere else and the recycled and moved again ( probably a few more transports than that)….than burining your eight twigs??
Gosh young man, don't they teach you anything at school?

;-)

[Nick Gatel]

Mark's last two posts are excellent!

[Travis B.]

Hey Mark,

No need to worry man. Wasn't trying to start an argument or anything. I just have a soft spot for camp fires ;). And really, my main reason for posting was just to provide a different point of view. I think context is the biggest factor in determining need on any given trip. I think Skurka is crazy, but it makes sense to use a stove (if I remember correctly he used it in his vestibule, correct?) when you are trying to make as much distance as you can, and are only stopping to set up camp, eat and sleep. Though even if I were, I don't think I would be able to forgo a fire ever couple nights to relax around.

Hell, the only reason I joined BPL was because I found it interesting getting input from people from all over North America (and the world) who hike in different climates, seasons, and with different goals. Differing viewpoints only serve to enhance my own skills outdoors. And coming from a place where campsites are stocked with free wood for burning it just struck me as interesting that others have far different opinions about fire and I wanted to contribute to the conversation. Apologies if any offence was taken, or your words were misconstrued. It wasn't intended. For what it's worth, I don't care if people warm up their food by rubbing their hands together quickly.

Oh, and back on the main topic: IE: smoking, fires, and boomboxes: My girlfriend and I ended up camping right next to a bunch of younger folk (early 20's) last summer. When we went to bed they were drinking, smoking(cigarettes and weed), and listening to music. Looked like they were enjoying themselves as well as keeping things relatively clean. Before drifting off my girlfriend and I laughed about the old days when that was our idea of a good time. Then we fell asleep. We laughed again the next morning as we were packing up, remembering the horror of waking up hungover in a hot tent. Then we went hiking…

Cheers,

Travis

[Marko Botsaris]

Justin, I agree! OK? Just who are you arguing your case to? The straw man is suitably chastised. As for me….

I guess we are making progress because no one is still arguing I am depriving myself by not having a bonfire, or that there are other *practical* choices. FYI, last year I got a caldera cone specifically because I wanted to have the option of using a small fire to cook my meal and coffee. Unfortunately, for reasons some of the others posters have pointed out, here in CA in many places for the past few seasons even such as these have been illegal.

So again do what you like, and for the n'th time not what I was (have ever) been talking about, especially as a small cook fire doesn't make much smoke isn't even remotely in the category of the kind of tourist/entertainment fires one commonly sees in the back country, suitable for roasting a whole pig, or perhaps for sacrificing virgins. Even these are OK with me if the custodians of the local wilderness have decided it is ok. Who am I to judge. I just disagree that it is obvious that I can't enjoy going into nature without a big honkin' decorative fire at night.

"Justin, don't you know that it is better for the environment to have a fuel canister made, sold, shipped, filled, sold again, shipped, inventoried, stocked, bagged, transported home, used and then disposed, moved somewhere else and the recycled and moved again ( probably a few more transports than that)….than burining your eight twigs??
Gosh young man, don't they teach you anything at school?
"

This would be a lot funnier if someone – anyone – on here actually said anything like that to make fun of. I believe one poster mentioned that open fires of any kind were banned in many drought stricken areas of CA currently do to the risk of starting a forest fire – such as the huge one last year on the northwest edge of Yosemite. That is about it – safer in some cases for the environment – not for your karma.

"What do you guys do when camping in the winter? Crawl into your sleeping bag for 13 hours?"

I usually work on my memoir.

[Travis B.]

Hey Mark,

Does this quote sum up how you feel about 'tourist fires'? I've always love the quote:

"White man builds big fire, stands back. Indian builds little fire, huddles close" – Unknown.

Cheers,
Travis

[Travis B.]

Though I do believe it's important to always have the ability to get a big fire going quickly in case a virgin needs to be sacrificed or a witch needs to be burned…

[Marko Botsaris]

" We laughed again the next morning as we were packing up, remembering the horror of waking up hungover in a hot tent. Then we went hiking…"

I hope you got up real early and talked real loud near their tent. LOL

There were some guys one time in an organized campground at Yosemite – away from the valley so it was pretty quiet there. They were two loud SoCal Frat boy type guys who just finished doing half-dome which I knew because they were talking so loudly. And they had a boom box, and you could pretty much hear it through most of the large campground. Unfortunately I had the spot right next to them, and a asked very meekly if they could turn it off because, unlike them, I was just starting, and was trying to get to sleep because I had to get up early to go on my trek. They basically told me they didn't have to because "the rules state we don't have to be quiet until 9 o'clock". So, so much for courtesy on their part.

To get back to the thread at bit, it seem to be the consensus amongst some is that if you were smoking a cigar in a campground, and someone politely asked if you could stop, or smoke it somewhere else, then the only reason for this would be because that person was some kind of political correctness N****.

Sometimes courtesy is just courtesy.

[Kattt]

Take it easy Mark, really. It's safer for the environment and your Karma.

[Justin Baker]

"Not in my backyard."

[Scott Martin]

Monica Lewinsky’s preferred hers in the White House. Sorry, couldn't resist

[Mitchell Ebbott]

Necromancing a 3 year old thread with a 6 month old last post to tell a 16 year old joke… we may have a record here!

[Alexander S]

I don't like them in the woods
I don't like them by the brooks

I don't like them in my lungs
I suspect they'd give me the runs.

That being said… Enjoy what you like to do and that's a fine case!

How about for keeping a wildflower uncrushed until you get home and can give it to your wife/ gf or dry it? I used one for that once and it worked great.

Yes. I picked a wildflower.

[Kerry Wilson]

I just love it when all the smoking Nazi's come running to save the planet while they drive their gas guzzling, exhaust gas emitting Hummers to the trailhead…..

WOW…..

[Marko Botsaris]

Only thing I love more that a good stereotype is a random mash-up of disparate stereotypes. Bravo! Throw in a bit of impotent rage and I'm tempted to go and make popcorn.

[Ken Thompson]

OK Godwin's Law. This thread is done.

[Marko Botsaris]

Weren't they already mentioned earlier in this thread a long while back? There should be a corollary about intermittently recurring references. Something like "the rate of re-degradation is proportional to the number of re-starts of the thread", or something.

[Ken Thompson]

So was Lewinsky. Time to move on then.

[Marko Botsaris]

Totally off topic, and weirdly enough, I knew Mike Godwin quite well – he lived in the same coop I did in Austin when I was in grad school there. Never heard him mention anything about NAZIs back then, but internet barely existed at that time.

[Kerry Wilson]

I really like the idea of wrapping repair tape(s) around the outside and filling the inside with patch kits for inflatables etc….

Pocket fishing kit or fire makins…also great uses….these things look like they would be awesome in the pack…gonna have to take up cigars again to get a few I guess…

[Kerry Wilson]

On second thought, it might be worth carrying a few just to set up around the perimeter like no trespassing signs to keep anti-campfire and smoking Nazi's from camping too near….

Oh wait, I guess the smoke from my bonfire will accomplish that….

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