“ideal” size for a solo flat tarp?

I do not know much about Spinn other than it is lighter than Sil and heavier than CF and there have been bad batches in the past (GG "The One" shelter comes to mind, but I have no direct knowledge).

As for CF, it's been absolutely waterproof for me while sitting in the rain for hours. I think some people mistake condensation for the fabric letting water through. Bonding it should be stronger than sewing, but I have bought my CF equipment thus far, so I'd be the last to advise on best practices there. :p When considering punctures and abrasions, I'll just say that it patches well with duct tape or tenacious tape (Sil does not) and I'm not sure how well it resists abrasion as I'm not draping it over me as I bushwhack. :p In fact, I never expect any sort of punctures or abrasions to my CF Shelters as my shelter is stationary… unless a tree branch falls, there is little chance of damaging it IMO. I'm more worried (well haven't had anything to worry about yet with .51) about stressing the fabric (like a .33). But yea, it def is the premium fabric these days and carries and premium price.

Hopefully we ~will~ see some new fabrics come out…that are lighter AND cheaper~ haha. :)

> The couple times I put the foot end of my sleeping bag in a non-breathable bag, I found the condensation inside the trash bag to be worse than any splash I might have experienced otherwise.

Ditto though I've only tried it once. That was enough. I normally pull my DriDucks jacket over the foot of my bag, but I was trying it out in my pillow sack. Perhaps your nylofume breathes some? I'm not familiar with that material. I've thought of trying my pack (GoLite Pinnacle) but even though it's volume is large is seems like the circumference would compress the down. I guess I should actually test it and see.

Back on topic, my tarp is 6×8 (half pyramid) and I don't use a bivy either. When I pitch it to the ground it's pretty tight lengthwise. I also made a "storm door" in case it gets really bad or wind shifts. I'd prefer a 5×9 or 6×9.

As forecasted, yesterday afternoon we had a strong storm system move through. We got about 45 minutes of drenching rain with gusty winds. Since my MYOG 6×9 tarp was still pitched in the back yard, I kept an eye on the radar then dropped by the house before the storm arrived. The timing was perfect, I got under the tarp about 15 minutes before the storm came through.

I just hung out and noted the degree to which mist & spray entered the tarp depending on the intensity of the rain & wind. It was informative. I see how being able to put something up at the end of the tarp getting the wind can make a big difference, even if it's just improvised like David O. says. The wind shifted multiple times and spray entered from alternate ends of the tarp. I also am convinced that given cuben's light weight, I am willing to add a couple of ounces to the tarp in order to make a roomy setup.

I noticed one strange thing in that I would get little droplets of water showing up in the center area of the tarp. I had a small Sea to Summit silnylon stuffsack with me, and I could see small droplets appear on its smooth surface. I also noticed an occasional droplet on my neck or face. Either my MYOG had some pinholes or the rogue droplet was bouncing a loooong way from the edge of the tarp. It made me think that an unprotected down bag could get damp over the course of an all-night rain, even under good tarp coverage.

Is there some particular recommendation for stowing a cuben tarp, i.e. roll it as much as possible and don't fold it? I recall from that old, long thread on cuben's waterproofness that people are saying every time you scrunch cuben, you decrease waterproofness.

"I noticed one strange thing in that I would get little droplets of water showing up in the center area of the tarp."

Sounds like condensation, especially that far into the tarp.

As for storing Cuben. I used to stuff it, but found that folding/rolling took up less volume so that is what i do. Not sure on longevity…different theories on that out there.

What size tarp would you suggest for a beginner, never tarped before, likes lots of room, and is 6' tall?

7 x 10. 7 x 1.5 if you are really worried. :p

Make one (or more) out of cheap polyethylene drop cloth, either 2mil or 3mil thickness. Experiment before you buy one of sil or cuben. This has proven very useful for me.

I have been carrying a 5×8 poncho tarp all this year and finally had the chance to use it in rain this past weekend. I think 7×9 sounds ideal. I was not entirely comfortable with the 8 foot length even though I used a bivy and I am sure the extra width would really help with gear storage and safety margins.

This is a great topic. I have no insight to offer other than I my first tarptent was a floorless Henry Shires Virga. It had a beak at the time and I have used it in some horrid storms, some in the open and the beak was a wonderful addition. However, I had to keep the tarp low in the roughest of weather. Now that I am older and don't like to crawl like a dog into my shelter, I went with the free-standing Hubba…and now I am back trying out the single-wall shelters. I miss 'being outside' and am trying different tarps.

Recently I have been playing around with a cheap tarp and trying different configurations and am liking the half pyramid. I was using a 6×8 and being 5'2", with ends tucked under, I could get by and am working on getting doors or some sort of closure for rain. This weekend I am heading out for the hills and bringing an 8×10 tarp and see how it works out. I think that would be my go-to size. I can have cooking space in a storm, scoot down towards the back and still keep the front open unless the wind shifts.

I am looking to MYOG tarp next.

just my 2 cents.

I was thinking about this as a way to try it out http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___20069

But maybe a plastic drop cloth would be an even better idea.

I use the SMD Meteor bivy for bug, ground cloth and spray/splash reasons. It gives me have enough coverage to keep my tarp size down to a 5×9 and still feel I have good protection.

I will use a 9×9(or 8×10) tarp if I don't need the Meteor bivy and I expect conditions.

The size and square shape of the 9×9 gives me lots of pitch options and plenty of coverage. I don't think I have ever used an a-frame pitch with it. Other pitches always seem better because of its shape.
Flying diamond or half pyramid variations are quicker to pitch and tear down.

The size allows three sides to the ground with headroom and enough overhang to allow a change of sleeping positions during the night without having to re-pitch when the wind direction changes during a storm.

I'm still not sure I can accept the extra weight though, but I sure like how well I sleep through rainstorms when I use it:-)

I'd love to see more commentary on square vs. rectangular tarps & the pitches a square unit offers. The main neato setup with a square seems to be the "flying diamond". But the square diamond pitches I've seen look woefully vulnerable to blowing rain at the entrance:

The diamond is open and airy, but there's no reason I can't set up a rectangle that's open and airy. I've seen Clelland!'s 'bomb shelter' square setup, but I seriously doubt I'd go to the trouble (have you seen the rigging on that thing?).

As far as vulnerability of the flying diamond:

1) With a 9×9, you can get way back inside, away from the opening
2) You don't have to pitch a flying diamond high like the pictures shown and can drop it down if needed
3) two sides can be tight to the ground so no wind won't blow through the back corner, keeping rain or snow near the front entrance.

The big advantage that I like about a 9×9 in flying diamond is the very quick setup and reasonably good coverage. Sometimes you don't want to mess with more complex pitches if the weather forecast is reasonably calm.

If wind were an issue, I'd pitch in one of the many storm pitches. The Oware site comes to mind for an example, but there are others.

What's a good layout for square tarp guy points? Looks like having some along the centerline is important, more so than for rectangles.

To get the most versatility, I've added 4 mid-panel guy-outs on a 10 x 10. This way you can pitch the flying diamond with a beak, by using the mid-panel on the diagonal. Of, course, this being an ultralight site, you could probably get away with two and just mark them by using a different colored line( for fast setup )

Enjoy,

Dave

I like lots of guy points. It multiplies your pitch options, but does add weight.
The Oware tarps seem to have good amount of guy points, but some have ordered with an additional center guy point for even more flexibility,

> I'd love to see more commentary on square vs. rectangular tarps
> & the pitches a square unit offers.

Hi James,

I went with a square 9'x9' cuben tarp for its many pitching options.
Most of the time I use the open and airy pitches already mentioned.
When weather really gets CRAZY the square tarp can be set up quickly
into a fully enclosed 9' tetrahedron with a 45" height.
1. Peg two corners of one side
2. Form 9'x9'x9' triangle by bringing two free corners
together and pegging with single stake
3. Fold the loose material over one side and peg at the
mid-point tie-out.
4. Crawl under with pole and raise the center and
ride out the storm.
Here is a picture:

Al

George, who made your tarp? What type of cuben was used? What's the overall weight without guylines?

> George, who made your tarp? What type of cuben was used?
> What's the overall weight without guylines?

Hi James,

I bought my 9'x9' flat tarp from Lawson Klein.
It is all glued and taped. No sewn seams or hem.

It is made of reflective cuben. Looks (and works)like a space blanket on one side and is green on the other (sort of an iridescent green). It is 0.75oz/sq yd cuben but with the reflective coating this cuben actually weighs 0.80 oz/sq yd.

Total weight of the 9×9 with linelocks and the spectra guylines is 9.0 oz.

Here it is in a traditional A frame pitch.

Wow that looks great George. Do you have contact info for Lawson? I didn't find anything via Google.

lawsonequipment.com

@James>

I like Clelland's bomb shelter setup for rain and cooking under the front "vestibule". But it means a 10'X10' tarp to get that configuration.

If'n I HAD to use a tarp it would be a 10'X10' Cuben tarp with all the tie-outs Clelland shows… and a bug net W/floor enclosure inside.

But I'll stay with my TT Moment for now. I'm old and usually too weary at the end of a long day to mess with tarping. Besides, if the wind shifts all I have to do is pull one end stake, pivot the Moment around and re-stake.

I sent an inquiry to Lawson Equipment but got no reply. Maybe they're offline for a while.

Hi James,

Lawson may just be enjoying the outdoors for a few days.
He has been responsive to this email: Lawson@mountainfitter.com

While you wait for a response, you may want to read some
Lawson's posts here on the backpackinglight forums.
He has posted a lot of interesting tests with bonding cuben
and making hammocks and tarps.

Al

I read in the forums somewhere that Lawson stopped selling tarps.