Jacket vs Vest

This is one of those questinos that really has no correct answers. Much will depend on the temperatures of places where you hike, what other pieces of clothing you already have — and your own preferences — plain and simple.

For me, I favor a jacket over a vest. Here's my rationale. The times when it's cold but not that cold, I find that a hooded wp/b shell or a hooded windshirt over my base layer is really quite sufficient. And when it gets much colder than that, then I like having a jacket to keep my arms from freezing and stiffening up.

I pretty much always carry some kind of shell jacket with me. And thus, the temperature range where a vest is really needed (i.e. a shell over a base layer just doesn't cut it any more) — but a full-on jacket is still not required — is pretty narrow or even non existent to me.

I use my synthetic high-loft vest for warmer seasons. I like to have more breathable upper body clothing for the trail and then use the vest on top of my other clothing at camp. This also saves the vest from pack abrasion, compression and sweat. In warmer environs(including summertime Sierras) I usually don't need the extra warmth of a jacket. If I do then I put the windshell on over the vest which creates some insulating airspace around the arms.

I use my synthetic high-loft jacket for colder seasons. In really cold situtations I would combine the vest and jacket, although I haven't needed to do that yet.

Also regarding synthetic high-loft vs down insulation there was an article here on BPL some time ago that suggested down wasn't as susceptable to loft loss due to wetness as is generally thought.

I some studies I have seen, both commercial and military, suggest keeping the core toasty can combact the most bitter cold. I know this is conventional knowledge but they have taken it a step further. The military is experimenting with heated vests for extreme cold situations. Basically, by keeping the core regulated, the need for protection for the extremities vanished, therefore making the cold weather soldier much more agile. They had men wearing only the vest and scivies in sub freezing conditions with no loss of feeling or dexterity or comfort.

Discovery also put Les Shroud (i think) through similar experiments with the vest on the Extreme Survival Show aired on Science with similar results.

How does all this apply to the hiker? I dunno. But I think vest can be a viable lightweight option in cold weather where you may otherwise think not…

granted, I live in Florida where the only time I get cold is when I drink a pina colada too fast. so take my opinion for whats its worth…

In three season conditions I would favor a vest over a jacket. You will have better mobility, save weight, and it's easier to fully vent giving you a large comfort range. I have found that if I keep my core warm, that my arms don't require a lot of insulation.

You can lose almost as much warmth through your head and neck as your torso… even though it's much less surface area. So whatever you do (hood, baklava, or neck gaiter/hat) make sure you are taking care of your head. Just because a jacket has a hood doesn't mean your head is well taken care of… make sure you can get a good seal. Otherwise you might find an insulated hood is actually less warm than a jacket with a good neck seal and no hat because the hood can function like an air scoop, channeling air into your core.

Until it gets really cold I like the combination of a polarbuff (used mostly as a neck gaiter), cloudveil six shadow beenie made from dryskin, and golite snow cap (polarguard insulated bomber cap), and the hood on my unlined windshirt because all together this system is very warm, is very easy for me to modify during the day (much easier to take a hat off then shed a layer on my torso), and works well at night when I am using a hoodless quilt.

It was noted that down can recover loft faster than many of us think. I would note that the BPL article that talked about this also highlited that the WM Flash Vest was exceptionally good because of the high breathability of the shell and the small amount of down mass. I believe the heavier the shell or the amount of down, the slower you will find the down garment recovering. Also keep in mind that those quick drying times were in low humidity 30% / high temp 68F conditions… field drying, even with body heat, won't be as quick.

Given that you are talking the sierras… between those to garments I would pick the golite vest becasue I won't be too worried about wet. I would recommend a third choice: a synthetic vest (thermawrap if you run hot, patagonia micro puff if you ran cold).

–Mark

Just a contrarian response to the above…

When it's cold but not THAT cold — and if I have to bring a separate "hood, baklava, or neck gaiter/hat" along with my vest, then I really would rather just put on my UL hooded shell jacket — which in my case, is something that I would carry anyway.

Good point about making sure the hood fits well — sealing is important for both rain and wind.

Thanks for the feedback.
Which would you all say is better as part of a sleep system with a down bag, the jacket that would add head warmth with a hood, or the vest that would boost torso loft of the bag.
(bag is MH Phantom 32).

Thanks

Great questions and responses here. I have been struggling with the same issues, here in the Mt. Lassen area, this winter.

I use the same bag, Phantom 32 F, so it is spot on for what I have been experimenting with. My experience is that it depends on factors that you have not defined: are you going to be above the treeline, where wind can very quickly become a decisive issue in this general area? As I recall in my youth much of the rim is above the tree line. Here in Lassen wind is one of the biggest factors influencing comfort, if not avoiding hypothermia or serious problems from cold.

So altitude, primarily potential for wind and ability to shelter in between trees or rocks would be a real consideration. Second, humidity or precip expected at the time of year.

The Phantom does great down to 32 F and can even work in snow conditions with 20 F if you have good ground insulation and a controlled tent type environment, that I can attest to. I carry extra dry socks, long johns, and a dry long sleeve base layer for sleeping and safety — if there is going to be extreme cold or danger of precip and winds I carry a higher loft mid layer Polartec long sleeve top and Montbell Thermawrap pants.

But, having read a lot of reviews and gotten a lot of pointers here, I got my confidence up to start using a base layer of merino wool or light weight capilene, covered by a Western Mountaineering Flash Vest (down, 3 oz.) with only an extra base lightweight capilene long sleeve top as a safety and for warmth if I got cold, and a windshirt (GoLite Ether) for normal wind and rain or snow over short periods. It works for when hiking or walking around during the day down to 20 F easy, and has worked for shorter periods at 10 F with no problem — have not tested it for extended periods.

Then, if it is for an overnight, I carry a Marmot Precip or my DropStoppers jacket and am intending to start relying on a Bozeman Mountain Works poncho, UL, to replace the jackets. Having gotten the confidence that a few layers of lighter weight gear works after reading stuff here and testing the theories and reports out, I don't think you will have a problem in the summer months — but ground insulation really influences the Phantom at below freezing temps and makes all the difference. (I use Gossamer Gear Thin pad closed cell with the torso egg shell pad as a standard and just got a BMW/BPL torso pad to see how it works with that system.)

As for sleeping, dry is what makes me warm. So extra pair of socks in the pack for safety or worn during the day for extra cushioning, medium weight capilene long johns, and the tops described above work with the Flash Vest. It does not seem to suffer from any compaction in the Phantom bag or under other layers. For head gear I have been plenty warm in the UL Mountain Hardwear balaclava and beanie/cap (1 oz. each). Again, it is really what I expect for the lows at night that determines whether I take any other head gear (a down balaclava) or feet gear (Integral Designs hot socks). I also sleep in my gloves, whatever they are at any particular moment, which I find increases the sense if not the reality of warmth.

So, I think the comments you have recieved are all correct because the answer is both a jacket and a vest are good — a UL jacket and a UL vest are a great combintation, with the baselayer garments for hiking and sleeping (the DropStoppers and the Flash vest weigh like 8.5 oz., the Marmot Precip and vest weigh like 14.5 oz. For me trusting and using a lighter system is a matter of having gained more confidence in the lightweight layering systems advocated in the BPL articles, and for me they have worked with a Phantom 32 F bag — in fact, for me personally based on my experience now, I would have no qualms taking the bag with the right supporting gear for ground insulation, wind and weather protection into the Tahoe Basin area for an extended period of time at that time of year — heavy snow and winter is a whole nother matter. Finally, the UL bivy sacs work great with the Phantom. (You ought to see the junk I used to carry because I was afraid of being cold.) bd

I prefer to use a hoodless vest or jacket when I sleep in my hooded sleeping bag(Marmot Atom or Hydrogen.) Actually I have no choice since I don't own a lightweight hooded high-loft jacket!!

I think a hooded jacket worn while sleeping would make more sense in a sleeping bag or top bag that had no hood. When I am in my sleeping bag and it gets cold I like to cinch the cords/hood down snug. I think a hooded jacket might make me uncomfortable in that case, but then again I don't know for sure!

I think environmental temps would be the defining factor in your choice.