Tin Cans as cook pots ?

[John Donewar]

I have a few questions regarding the use of a 19 fluid ounce sized Progresso brand soup can as a cook pot on the trail.

I understand that it will eventually rust. Due to the rust issue this would be an almost every trip MYOG project. ;-)

I can almost see this as a benefit to hikers that use wood burning "stoves". Don't bother with scouring the bottom of a sooted up pot, replace it when it becomes really cruddy.

The thought is to take off the top with a side cutting can opener so as to leave a rounded edge and salvage the top as a cook pot lid.

Has anyone out there thought about or done this?

Would there be any safety or toxicity issues due to heating water to boiling in a "tin can" pot? I did see a warning about not using any galvanized can due to the possibility of heavy metal poisoning.

I was researching this subject on the internet and there was some mention of hydrogen being a by product of hot water and tin! Boom?

I found this reference on the web at Zen Stoves;

Link to Zen Stoves

Scroll down a little past halfway to the "French Market" coffee can.

I also found this reference at Cabelas;

Link to Cabelas

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Party On,

Newton

[William Zila]

find a hobo cooking with one and ask if he has experienced heavy metal poisoning or a hydrogen explosion all jokes aside i am very interested in your findings

[Stephen Barber]

We certainly did it back i the day, even made "hobo stoves" from #10 cans.

These days, I'm not sure it would be my first choice: I seem to recall hearing that current manufacturers use a plastic coating inside tin cans to prevent oxidation (rusting) and preserve food taste. I'd want to be sure I wasn't cooking plastic into my food before I used today's tin cans.

[Rusty Beaver]

"Would there be any safety or toxicity issues due to heating water to boiling in a "tin can" pot"?

You'll get a big dose of BPA from the lining…being that heat intensifies the leaching. How much though no one knows…and no one knows for certain what that would mean short or long term.

[John Donewar]

Stephen,

"I'd want to be sure I wasn't cooking plastic into my food before I used today's tin cans."

I have that same concern about today's beer / drink can pots.

Party On,

Newton

[John Donewar]

Rusty,

"You'll get a big dose of BPA from the lining…being that heat intensifies the leaching."

So the trick would be to find an unlined can for this project.

So does anyone know what cans are unlined these days?

Party On,

Newton

[James Marco]

Ha, ha…simply burn them out. This is by far the easiest compared to scrubbing with some sort of solvent. I am betting the fumes are less, too.

[John Donewar]

James,

So I first make a wood burning stove out of my cook pot and then turn it back into a cook pot. ;-)

I got it!

Starting with an unlined can would be nicer though. Coffee can?

Party On,

Newton

[Rusty Beaver]

Newton,

Here's a list of BPA free cans: http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/7-companies-you-can-trust-to-use-bpa-free-cans.html

However, though those cans won't leach BPA, what will they leach….particularly with heat? I believe every modern can containing a food product has a liner…and who knows what it is made from? Things like this are often slow to be discovered (about 1987 for BPA leaching) and even slower to reach the knowledge of consumers so they may make a choice.

I would not use any used food/beverage can for heating/cooking food in….cause I don't know what I'm going to be ingesting or how it might effect me now or later….and neither does anyone else.

[Bob Gross]

"I would not use any used food/beverage can for heating/cooking food in….cause I don't know what I'm going to be ingesting or how it might effect me now or later….and neither does anyone else."

That is one of the mysteries of life. Isn't it great?

–B.G.–

[John Donewar]

Rusty,

Thanks for the info.

"I would not use any used food/beverage can for heating/cooking food in….cause I don't know what I'm going to be ingesting or how it might effect me now or later….and neither does anyone else."

"I have that same concern about today's beer / drink can pots." ;-?

This may partially answer your concerns from above. See the link below.

http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_details.php?products_id=103208

Read starting at "Eden" just left of center on the page even with the bottom of the can pictured on the right of the page.

FWIW I do own an unlined Ti pot.

I wonder if my ramen noodles would taste like pine nuts if cooked in a c-enamel lined pot? ;-)

Party On,

Newton

[Dave Marcus]

I know Eden Organics uses enamel-lined cans. They don't have #10 cans, but they do sell 28oz cans.

[John Donewar]

Bob,

I was wondering if you were going to chime in on this one. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

[Here There]

I used to do this quite a bit as a kid, and in recent years I've used can pots a few times on impromptu overnight or weekend trips when I was visiting friends and didn't have my gear with me. (It's amazing that between walmart and thrift stores you can outfit yourself for less than $20.)

If you heat the empty can over a fire or other heat source for a while you will see most of the inside and outside coating burn off, and if you want you can scour the rest off with sandpaper.

So far I haven't grown any extra arms or developed any weird health issues, but check back in a couple more decades in case they're slow to develop.

[Jonathan Kreusch]

can pots work great!!!! they are light but they do rust if you don't immediately tend to them after cooking. These are MJB 320z coffee cans. 3.80z and $5.00

[Rusty Beaver]

"So far I haven't grown any extra arms or developed any weird health issues, but check back in a couple more decades in case they're slow to develop".

Haha…:-)…but, if you were to develop an extra appendage or other oddity or health issue however minor, with everyday toxins being ubiquitous, you wouldn't know which one or combination to attribute it to. Ah, the price we pay for fun and convenience……

Newton,

That's good to know about Eden can linings. However, given what a lining must do, I'm willing to bet their concoction consists of far more ingredients than implied. Again, we don't know exactly what is in it. If I **had** to choose a used can to cook in though, I'd grab the Eden;-).

Bob,

True, true….but when it comes to ingestion, I try as hard as I can to keep mysteries to a minimum.

[James Winstead]

I'm no chemistry expert, but…

I just made my first catfood can stove a few weeks back. On the first burn, there was a visible film that burned and peeled off the inside of the can. I put the empty stove inverted just over my kitchen stove to burn out the entire can completely.

This only actually happened where it was in direct contact with flame. I don't know exactly what kind of temperatures are reached inside the boiling vessel so maybe this isn't an issue, but seeing gunk flake off something that contained food was a little disconcerting.

[Jerry Adams]

I'm with you Rusty B

Call me a paranoid conspiracy theorist

BPA in can linings may be unsafe. Especially when you heat it. A normal can is heated once at a somewhat low temperature to kill bacteria right after it's sealed. As a cook pot, you heat it hotter, and many times so it could be much worse.

BPA mimics Estrogen and can have subtle effects like cancer, obesity, and especially for pregnancy or child development.

On the other hand, if you use it a few times a year camping and you're not pregnant, maybe it's not significant.

Other countries are reducing BPA usage.

And whatever they replace it with may be just as bad.

And if you burn or sand off the lining, there may still be residue that is harmful.

Maybe you're better off using an unlined cooking pot.

[Here There]

I wouldn't advocate can pots for regular use, though with some attention to detail on removing any lining they would probably be pretty safe–but why risk it? One good titanium pot will last many lifetimes with even a little care.

For once in a while use though I think they're probably a fine option, and I'll continue to use them for impromptu trips when my ti pots aren't available.

[James Nomura]

Personally I would look for better choices before going with tin cans for cooking. Tin cans are better used as wood burning stoves or windscreens than cook pots IMO.

I know some choose to cook canned items in their original cans over stoves but I've always wondered how safe that really is. As someone stated earlier, some cans are lined with something to prevent corrosion and I'm almost certain most canned foods (containing salt) would need something lined on the insides of the container in order to make them last. I could be overstating the theoretical health risks as the lining may not be toxic even when heated.

[John Donewar]

I stumbled across this thread and the info is really interesting in how it relates to tin cans for cooking or boiling water.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=17193

Party On,

Newton

[Rusty Beaver]

"Freezer bag cooking, in contrast, is safe until proven otherwise".

Thanks for the link, Newton. However, in reference to the end of the first post, I find it alarming to read "…safe until proven otherwise" when it comes to anything meant for food prep or ingestion. That seems to be standard protocol in the food industry though…but, to sit down and really think about that for a moment, how much logic is in that line of thinking?

Also, and I hope I'm not veering too far off course here, but when ever I see these subjects come up on forums, I see a lot of passion from both sides…but rarely (if ever?) do I see anyone claiming to be familiar with the US chemical regulatory process. I'd highly recommend to anyone with an interest in these type of topics, particularly those whose faith is in the system, to familiarize themselves with it. This can easily be done by going to the US Government Accountability Office web site and typing in TSCA (Toxic Substance Control Act) in the search box. The GAO has been reporting on the regulatory process since the TSCA was enacted under the EPA in 1978. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of pages of reports. Reading the "summaries" will give someone the gist though.

Newton…this wasn't directed at you or anyone else. After reading some of the responses in that thread you linked to, I just thought it would be a good time to throw it out there.

Cheers!

[John Donewar]

Rusty,

In my original post I was asking a question and also asking for input on the subject. I got exactly what I asked for on this thread.

"Newton…this wasn't directed at you or anyone else."

Rusty, I didn't think it was and there was no offense taken.

"… I see a lot of passion from both sides…"

Passion is good as long as a person's mind and eyes are open to objective analysis of the facts and information on hand. That person must also be willing to accept the possibility of being wrong. We may never know in our lifetime the answer to the question in my OP. As long as people on this forum are passionate about finding and sharing good and factual information, it's all good! ;-)

Rusty I appreciate your posts,information and opinion on this subject greatly.

Thank you to everyone that posted on this thread for taking the time to offer suggestions, information and / or answers. We are hikers helping hikers do it better, cheaper, safer and lighter.

Party On,

Newton

[Rusty Beaver]

Cool. Thanks, Newton!

I think it's sometimes difficult for humans to admit to not knowing…or being wrong. I see some really well written posts on BPA and similar subjects here and else where that are obviously done by highly intelligent folks. The crunching of numbers, calculating probabilities, etc is impressive….but, how ever well intended it is, it's still based around the assumption that our regulatory system is sound. If it were not, we wouldn't have anything to grab on to and base our intelligence around…and that's not a comfortable place to be for everyone.

Point being, though no one can deny the strides our scientific community has taken, the fact of the matter is that in the whole scope of things, we really know very, very little about these sort of things…and this becomes painfully obvious once we understand the chemical regulatory process and investigate all scientific findings, not just the ones we want to view.

Any hoo, I enjoy your posts and great attitude, Newton.

Cheers,
r

[Dan Yeruski]

The canning industry cooks the food to high temperatures in steam heated pots and then places them into cans, seals the cans and then heats them again while the lids are on. They have it all down to a science. I have taken the large cans of soup and used a ring of fire stove made to fit the diameter of the can to heat the the contents to about 180 degrees. At that temperature it's not too hot to that I have to wait a long time to eat it. I have no fear of eating the lining of the can over a periode of it's lifespan when using one over wood fires. The brake pads on all automobiles contain asbestos. It wears off everytime the breaks are applied. You stand more of a chance of becoming ill just by being outside in large cites where there millions of cars. How many of us have become ill because we drank the bpa that was contained in our obsolete water bottles? Not me!!!! What adverse effect will your cell phone have on your head with all the high frequency radio waves it sends out every time you use it? Use the can to heat your water. To make yourself feel better, boil several batches of water and pitch it. Lat's say all the nasties have been boiled out of it. Feel good about using it from then on. There are worry warts all over the place. 1/2" galvanized hardware cloth is another favorite for the worry warts. That's my 2 cents.

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