Wonderland Trail July 2012 gear list

"Would the perimeter bug net be enough to keep the bugs/critters/mice out?"

Nothing will keep mice out besides steel. =)

If said mice want in, they will chew themselves in withing 2 minutes of setting up your shelter. Why I don't even bothering closing said shelters. Especially if I think mice are around. Far faster to chase them out after they have figured out they really don't want to mess with you for little or no gain than to hear them chewing through your shelter and THEN have to chase them out.

9 days. 10 miles a day. Easily doable. In fact I bet you finish early and will be looking for where to go next to use up your vacation time before the flight leaves. Honestly if you are in half decent shape, you will have said 10 miles hiked in 3 hours and look around wondering what on earth to do with the next 15 hours of sunshine. Bring cards eh. Add that to your list! My list always goes, TP, CARDS, first aid kit and then everything else.

That time of year, bugs aren't bad, though if like this year, will be height of bug season so… If light snow year will be the height of flower season and you will be stopping and dropping your jaws in awe in many spots what pumice snow and a perpetual cloud squeezer(mt. Ranier) create.

Extra briefs? I don't, but honestly its a personal preference. I go commando and wash to prevent chaffing. I also wear briefs and hike em up. This absorbs sweat and one doesn't need to wash as often. In this case a 2nd pair is nice as you take off the 1st and wash and dry in mesh back pocket or side pocket.

Your Q about sleeping pad… Neo Air should be sufficient, don't see why not. I have gone without often though never when camping on snow. I find I always sleep/feel better with a sleeping pad and is always worth its weight. Normal snow year, you won't be sleeping on snow anywhere. If its late like this year, then nearly all of your camping spots will be snow covered and sleeping on snow without a pad is barmy.

Jon,

I don't have any specific suggestions on your gear list.

I live and backpack in the Pacific Northwest, however, and would caution you that you may encounter temps around freezing with a combination of rain and/or wet heavy snow (slushing?). This type of weather can occur here at any time of the year at the elevations of the Wonderland Trail.

Daryl

Edit> Looks like you double-posted this topic. I replied to the other thread but since this is the one people are responding to, I will add my reply here.

Jon –

Well, first off, congratulations for getting a group of friends to hike the Wonderland Trail. You picked a good time of year to hike the mountain, late July and early August often is the driest time in this part of the world.

I looked over your gear list – it looks pretty good to me.

I can comment on a couple of things:

The NeoAir should be fine on its own. I don't think you will need anything more unless we have another late and cold spring (like we had this past season). As a result, the snow didn't melt out until four or five weeks late. But seriously, it's usually a very nice time of year to be here.

As for your tent, I would likely opt for the Shangri La. I have a Tarptent, and if you are sharing it with another person, it can be a bit of a challenge in the event you encounter cooler / wet weather. Though this is unlikely in late July, it certainly isn't unheard of – the sagging of silnylon as a result of high humidity/rain makes keeping a taut pitch tougher. The net result? The walls will have a tendency to sag a bit and as a result can come in contact with the sides of your sleeping bag. If this happens, you are going to have a wet bag. But, and there is always a but – depending on the season it can be buggy in late July. SO a bug net would be recommended especially when and if you camp at lower elevations. Plus, I think the real estate might come in handy in a bigger tent. I haven't had issues with critters – just mosquitoes.

On clothes – well, let me just preface everything by saying I can wear the same clothes day after day while hiking. BUT I do like to carry seperate sleepwear (including sleep socks) only because I don't want to go to bed in damp/wet clothes and socks. I wear that stuff exclusively when sleeping except for the last day, when I will walk out in that stuff if the weather warrants it.

The temps on the mountain can vary quite a bit depending on the weather. This year we had unseasonably cool summer – in the mountains because of all the snow it didn't heat up that much. THe days were nice but it was definitely cool in the evenings. I would go with the long underwear. If I had zip-off pants, I'd use those exclusively (and not sleep in them). Or I you prefer shorts, go with the lightweight shorts and hike in those exclusively. I wouldn't carry both necessarily. You are going to get dirty. You are going to sweat. You could see some snow.

If you want, you could always cache extra clothes. How so? Do you plan to make use of the ranger stations along the way to cache food/fuel? If so, you would only need to carry 3-4 days worth of supplies at the most at any time. You will need to plan this out and of course, it does depend upon the sites you draw for your permit. You can mail food/gear ahead to selected stations – we drove as I live within an hour of the mountain. You could put an extra shirt or other clothes into one of your caches.

Here you can find info about the food caches.

The phone won't be of much use on the mountain except for a couple of spots. I did get a signal along the west side of the mountain for a short while.

Finally, fires are prohibited pretty much everywhere along the trail. Stoves are permitted, but make sure you read up on the rules regarding sending fuel through the mail.

Finally, send in multiple permit requests! And pick good spots. Are you going for group sites or just individual sites? In most of the individual sites, you can fit two tents. The group sites do have the advantage of some shelters.

Among the many campsites I'd recommend reserving are:

Summerland – Follow the trail out a bit …the ones further back are the best

Indian Bar (if you do choose the individual sites you will be tempted to camp near the river…For a MUCH warmer experience, climb up towards the latrine. It goes back a fair distance but up here it is MUCH, MUCH warmer. The cold air that sinks from the mountain side will be below you.)

Klapatche Park – my favorite spot to camp on the West Side

AVOID camping at MOWICH LAKE at at all costs – it is serviced by a road and is terrible place to camp. It will full with people.

Oh, and do take the Spray Park Alternative rather than follow the traditional route of the Wonderland Trail – the scenery is WAYYYY better. Not even close.

Have fun!

Dirk

The other place I'd recommend avoiding as a camping spot if possible is Devil's Dream. If you draw it as a campsite, make sure you tank up with enough water to get through dinner and breakfast—no water nearby.

We did the WT in 2010. We took the Spray Park route, and loved it. We camped at Eagle's Roost, and hiked the 2 miles to Mowich Lake to pick up our cache, then went on. Eagle's Roost, if coming from the Carbon River side, stop at the creek 1/4 mile before the camp to tank up on water–no water in camp itself. Oh, and make sure when hiking over the Cowlitz Divide that you have plenty of water–nothing up on the ridge itself, no water until Nickel Creek. We were hiking in very hot weather, and were glad we had carried a little extra.

Have fun! It's a blast.

Definitely do Spray Park, and avoid staying at Mowich (although lunch there can be quite pleasant).

As for 9 days being too long, I wholeheartedly disagree. We took 13 nights in 2006 and thoroughly enjoyed every minute. Indeed it still is the highlight of our hiking career. This is not a trail to make miles on. As one of crown jewels of US trails, it is one to be savored.

So what if you get to your next camp early mid-day…lounge around and enjoy the incomparable scenery (if it's not foggy or raining, alas). Or take a really long lunch break somewhere. Or take many long breaks during the day. Or pick blueberries or take flower pictures or soak your feet in a stream or …

Jettison the "must make 30 miles per day" attitude and concentrate on what backpacking is really about, simply enjoying being in the outdoors, particularly on what may be most beautiful trail in the US, if not the world.

I'd say one thing:
I know someone said that isn't bug season but it IS!! Bug season is the worst between the snow melt and say 2nd week of August. Snowmelt on the higher areas of the WT is usually 2nd week of July and so on. It of course depends as well if North or South facing.

Or as I put it….if the flowers are in bloom, so are the bugs.

Now at least you have a good chance for no rain. That is usually a dry period but of course that can change. Hah…..gotta love She Who Makes Her Own Weather.

As for temps? Well one nice thing about Rainier is that the backcountry camps on the WT are nearly all in the woods of some sorts, so you have built in wind breaks. This though can also lead to areas of nasty bugs due to no wind.

On water: The good news in July is nearly all creeks will be running. But don't drink glacial fed water unless it is an emergency. Yuck.

Temperatures: It gets cold at night. Even 45 is cold when you are sweaty. DO bring a layer for your legs.

As for the 9-10 miles a day I say that is a good number. Doing 15 miles a day on the WT is tiring due to the constant up and down nature. Enjoy those days of 9 miles! You never feel rushed, you can take photos, take a nap, explore side trails, go swimming, etc. And it gives you time to have a burger at Sunrise.

PS: On food sacks. DO make sure the bag is bird resistant. Yes, the bear poles are great. But so are the ravens…….

Hey Jon,
Your gear list looks good. I did the WT over the 2nd week of july this year. You can compare lists and read my TR here:

Gear list (22lbs w/ food & water) and itenerary:
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7990551&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

TR:
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7992353&highlight=

list looks good, I have one concern however- what kind of temps have you used your quilt? while 45 might be the normal lows, I'd want to be prepared for near freezing- not sure Cocoon 60 w/ a syn jacket is going to make that

the neo on it's own will be fine, folks sometimes take a thinlight to boost the temp and provide a little protection- it makes for a nice sit/kneel pad as well- not needed temp wise, but might be handy

how long is the perimeter netting? if it's long enough to allow for a high-ish pitch you should be fine- you've got a bug net if worse comes to worse :) you could also look into a inner net if you think the bugs are going to be particularly bad

Mike

Thanks guys for all the great replies and taking the time to write out your responses, it helps a lot!

Brian – I have a small deck of cards that weigh only 0.5oz that I think I will add and I am leaning toward a second pair of boxer briefs.

Daryl – That is a great reminder to be prepared for those temps!

Dirk – We are hoping this is late enough in the summer to not have to much snow like this past summer! Thanks for the suggestion on the Neoair by itself. I plan on doing some testing to push it but I'm hoping I can use that alone. I'm also thinking to go with the Shangri La 3. I was thinking the same thing about the Squall 2 in rain with 2 people potential being tight living quarters. The Shangri La would feel like a castle for us and I would actually carry 4oz less. As for bottoms I'm thinking to go with shorts for hiking then to have either the polite long underwear or BMW cocoon pants for camp and sleeping. We will food caches at Sunrise and Mowich Lake. The iPhone won't be just for calls but for my map, gps if needed, video, pics, light ext..

We will have more than 6 in our group so we will be at group sites – we are planning on staying at both summer land and Indian Bar, unfortunately Klapatche Park doesn't have a group site. We will look at trying to avoid Mowich and we are planning on taking Spray Park.

Diane – We worked around to avoid Devil's dream. Everything I have read sounds like it is a place to avoid! Thanks for the water suggestions, very helpful!

Elliott – We feel like 9 days will be good. Most of my friends will have heavy packs so it will be nice and enjoyable hike for me and they might struggle a little more :) That is exciting to hear it is the highlight of your hiking career. I feel it will be the same for me!

Sarah – That's good to hear about the miles, we are mostly for the midwest so we don't get a lot of mountain hiking so we wanted to be a little conservative with all the ups and downs to not try and tackle to many miles, especially with some guys carrying big packs. Good call on the food bag. I'm taking a Watchful Eye Design OP food sack which is oder proof so I think that should help with the birds, yea?

K Web – I had actually already read your trip report before you posted hear as I started doing research last month. I must say very impressive and it was a lot of fun reading your trip report. Your gear list was also very helpful! Did you stay warm with your 40 degree quilt?

Mike – So far I have used the quilt to around 50 and have been comfortable. I need to do some testing to see how comfortable I am into the low 40's high 30's. That is one reason I am leaning to take the BMW cocoon pants over the polite long johns which weigh only 2.5 more ounces to help with night time temps if it happens to get colder. I have time to test that out to see how if feel about it.

As for the thinlight that is what I'm debating if the 2oz is worth having for sitting around camp and some of those things along with sleeping.

The bug net is 8 inches so it decent length to allow it to pitch the shelter to high for ventilation. Like you said worse case I do have the bug net haha.

Thanks again guys for the help. Keep the suggestions coming! Any thoughts for ways I can cut some weight?

I will admit I try my phone on every trip I go on – I like to see what I can pick up. Having said that I have found that service on the Paradise and the White River/Sunrise side does happen – and often shockingly good.

I have a theory that the park has hidden a tower in White River in direct line sight of the mountain. I could be wrong but the signal is just too strong now. We are talking 5 bars on White River Rd, up on Hwy 410 where you can see the Mt. directly and even for the first couple miles on Owyhigh Lakes Trail. I can get perfect reception at Panhandle Gap and Summerland as well – these are areas up high though, with direct line of sight to further peaks – and the NF is full of towers.
I got reception at Sunrise this past summer and I know if you walk the WT out towards Skyscraper you can as well – heck you can see downtown Seattle from there! (Just below Burroughs).

Anyhow, where reception will blow is the West Side, don't expect much unless you are on the top of the ridge and even then only expect to be able to make phone calls, not data.

But it gets better by the year for us who like to play with our baby computers ;-) Just make sure you turn the phone part off when down below so you don't hose your battery.

Sarah thanks so much for the info. I had tried to do a few google searches on where you can get cell reception on the WT and didn't really find much. This is very helpful! Have you found much reception on the north side by Carbon River and Mystic Camp and the Spray park section? Thanks for the help!

Thanks.

Around camp I wore my MB inner down pants and parka. When going to bed I just layed the quilt on top of me. The night I slept on the banks of the frozen golden lakes was the only night I had to cinch up the quilt.

If next July is anything like this past July, you'll want two sleeping pads. I only had two nights sleeping on bare ground.

you could nix the matches and the firesteel for a minibic and save half an once

nix one of your lights

Preference, but I hate rain pants. Especially if you are carrying long johns, just keep the long johns dry and put them on to sleep in.

nix extra boxers, you wont be in a hurry and can always rinse em out.

I don't understand the aqua water shoes/VB socks thing, but if they are truly only an once and they work for you, more power to ya. If they really are only an once for a pair… i may look into those!

I got rid of my pillow stuff sack a while ago and never missed it.

Finger toothbrush- gross! :-b

That quilt and jacket combo looks a little on the cold side, not unsafe but might get uncomfortable.

Personally I'd op for a lightload towel over the packtowel, lighter and i find they dry faster, only 2bucks

I don't see sunscreen? I'd carry plenty.

Personally I don't bother with an extra shirt, I found I never really switched em out.

You COULD nix the purell, seeing as you have soap. I carry both.

My wife & I hiked the WT in 2001 (late Aug/early Sep). Did it in 9 nights / 10 days. Never once saw the peak of Mt. Ranier. Socked in the entire trip. Nothing flat on the trail… you're either climbing or descending. We used a floor-less tent (BetaMid). We worried constantly about drainage issues in the rain. The designated campsites were compacted and subject to water flowing into the tent. We did manage to stay dry but it was a constant worry. I also had a mouse run across my face one evening. That wasn't pleasant. But, I lived.

As far as your list, given the potential for bugs, I'd opt for zip-off hiking pants and a long-sleeve hike shirt. If it's warm & no bugs, roll up the sleeves and zip off the pant legs. I'd also opt for a larger volume of water storage. I substitute a 2 or 3 L platypus for one of the 1-L's. That way, you'd be able to hit the trail each morning w/o water concerns.

We resupplied twice. No need to carry extra food weight if you don't have to.

Have fun.

The Carbon side is so far down and Mowich isn't any better – it is in a basin of sorts. Now though….Spray Park I don't know! You do get very high at the high point between it and Seattle Park. But it has been a couple of years since I have been up there :-( I remember though of getting reception at a camp we did behind Indian Henry's Hunting Grounds….we took the trail to the lakes and then the old trail (not on maps but easy to follow) out towards Pyramid Peak – we could even hear the road to Paradise at night! The motorcycles would rev like crazy! And I made phone calls from there……
Also have made plenty of calls and texts at Paradise as well.

Extra change of clothing–not necessary. Just make sure you have clothing you can layer parts over each other. I do recommend having dry layers to sleep in, but changing shirts while on the trail, don't worry about it, just revel in your own messiness and enjoy the shower at the end of the trail. My boyfriend cached new underwear, socks, shirts and I think pants at each food cache, but he was excessively finicky, and certainly did not carry the extras. Make sure you have enough socks–I had to change to dry socks in the middle of the day to prevent blisters, and ended up buying a few new pairs at Sunrise, because things don't dry much while in camp.

The first half of the trail (Longmire to White River) we were sweltering even at night=eastern rim of the trail, temps were 85-90 during the day. At Sunrise we jettisoned "cold weather" stuff in our cache. Then, coming around the the west side, it got really cool at nights. So being prepared for either extreme is a good idea. Bugs can be ferocious, so long sleeves and pants can be great while hiking, and avoid sun burn as well. I hiked over Panhandle gap in shorts, and even though I thought I put on enough sunscreen, I burnt the crap out of the backs of my calves, which also had a fine collection of mosquito bites above the sock line. I was a hurting unit for a day or two.

I want to go do it again! We took 10 days, and felt that it was wonderful. By the time it ended, we were sorry–we wanted to keep going.

Thanks for all the helpful replies! Sorry I have not been able to respond in a little bit.

K Web – I will watch the temps and weather to see what the snow does and make a choice on the second pad when we get close.

Ozzy – thanks for all the helpful tips! Matches and fire starter are gone for the mini bic, one of the lights is gone, mostly likely will drop the second pair of boxers.

As for the camp footwear they are actually from Sprint Aqutics and I re weighed them and they are 1 oz per shoe and paired with the golite vapor barriers at 1oz it is 3oz system I can wear with socks and will stay dry walking around camp. To me on a 9 day trip 3oz for camp shoes seems like it might be worth it.

In order for me to sleep I need some sort of pillow so unfortunately I have to carry something. The finger toothbrush yea a little gross but at least it's light hahah! I need to do some testing on the quilt and clothes combo to see how comfortable I am with it around 40 degree or lower and make a decision from there.

Thanks for the great suggest on the pack towel I have actually not seen them before, only bummer $10 for shipping and it's $2.50 for the towels haha. I forgot about sunscreen I will add some to the list. My only thought with the extra shirt is the stink factor with a 9 day trip and to have two shirts to rotate to sleep in and one to wash? Would you say not worth it and just be a little stinking haha? Thanks again for all the help!

Sarah – thanks again for the helpful beta, it is nice to have an idea where we might be able to get reception. What cell carrier have you had on the trail?

Diane – The extra shirt would be used to sleep in or rotate between another shirt which I would try to wash to get some what clean. Normally on a 5 day trip I would take no extra shirt or boxerbriefs but I have never been on a trip this long so I'm trying to figure out weight vs comfort. I have one pair of sleep socks and I am thinking through if it is worth bring an extra pair of 1.5oz trail running socks. Did you get your mosquito bites while you were hiking or when you stopped for breaks and at camp?

Thanks again everyone for all the time and insight, it is very helpful!