Hex 3: why so heavy compared to OWare?

Standard 30/40D silnylon, which is what I think Oware normally uses in its shelters, has a typical finished weight of about 1.3 oz per sq yd.

Golite's shelters, on the other hand, use a proprietary "SilLite" fabric which (according to their website) weighs 1.76 oz per sq yd, or about 35% more.

Since these kinds of shelters use a fair amount of cloth, I'd guess that the unit fabric weights probably account for most of the difference you noted.

Would a hex design, using 6 triangles of fabric, use more fabric than a square design which is essentially 4 triangles. If the Oware is 10x10x6 this means that each of the 4 triangles are 10' base by 7.81height = 1/2 base * height = 39.05sq feet x 4 triangles = 156.2 sq feet of fabric.

Anyone know how to do this for a hex? I tried but I don't think my math is coming out right…

Also, the Hex3 is 65square feet: http://www.golite.com/products/NS_proddetail.asp?number=SH6106

I actually own a hex3, but I'm too lazy to go out and get the tape measurer and pitch it.

Hmm. It seems to me that for a given diameter and height, the area of a pyramid shape will *decrease* as you increase the number of facets. (=Hex shape should use less fabric than a square shape for a given square-footage and height.) That said, the Hex is 66" to the Oware's 72", so it's really apples to oranges.

I'm wondering how much more durable a 1.76 oz "Sil Lite" shelter is as compared to a 1.3 oz Silnylon shelter. I can only assume that the Hex shape (being closer to conical) would spill wind better than the square shape. But how much better?

Also, does anyone know whether the construction methods and/or features of the Hex contribute to its' high weight? Does it have a heavier zipper or is that peak vent heavy? Heavier seams? Or is it just the heavier-weight fabric that causes the weight penalty?

I have gotten into trouble buying things on specs alone in the past, and this seems like one of those times… the OWare is lighter, bigger, taller, and has much more usable 3D space than GoLite and Black Diamonds' offerings. But there must be drawbacks, or reasons why GL and BD went the routes they did!

Any comments would be much appreciated.

The oware mid uses a special helium infused thread in the
seams ;^).

It appears BD and Golite are just a little slow on the uptake.

I wouldn't be surprised if BD didn't offer a larger tent soon,
they eventually came around with Epic bivy sacks, buckles
on the bottom of the mids and of course silnylon in their
tents.

It sounds like Golite is toying with an AlphaHex too. (See
mr Skurkas article).

As for wind resistance, the anchors used, play the largest
role in how these types of shelters stay up in high winds.
I like rocks that can just be carried for tarp anchors.
Buried sticks work well too.
If you anticipate lots of wind, you can also have optional ties
outs added midway up the side of the oware shelters.

Dave
owareusa.com

I used the original BD Megamid, the Megalite, and now use the Hex 3. There is a fabric difference. Jim is right on with the fabric weight difference.

That said, I don't think it really matters. I never have had a problem with the lighter stuff – even in nasty ice-crust-forming-on-the-entire-exterior conditions. The Hex does use pretty tough tie-outs, zippers, etc. It also has 2 vents and the Mids don't. Flaps around MUCH less in windy conditions. In fact, it barely flaps at all. Getting a really taut pitch is much easier.

I ultimately MUCH preferred the Hex 3 and sold both of the mids. I found the 9X9 size a bit false, as the edges are of little use. The Hex's steeper pitch makes it pretty useable right to the edge. The BD shelters didn't have any mid-height guy attachments, so sagging could be an issue and you have the low-use perimeter. It looks like Oware's have those tabs (at least on the back of the Alphamid), which would make a significant difference. Great design.

I think for 2 people, the Hex is tough to beat. For solo, I'm saving my nickels for an Alphamid – it looks perfect as a roomy, light, tough shelter that would make hanging out in our constant rain here in the NW tolerable. I'm still trying to figure out a floor/bug system that I'd use in it. Maybe Dave will offer a mesh apron/bathtub floor option similar to the TarpTents :) Should still come in well under 2 pounds – probably just over 1.5 – and would be nearly the perfect solo shelter for my uses.

Regarding shelter fabric selections, there are a couple of issues worth noting about silnylon.

The first is that standard silnylon does not satisfy the fire retardancy laws in several jurisdictions including MA, NY, NJ, LA, MI, MN, CA and Canada. That's why larger manufacturers and retailers (like REI) won't ship silnylon shelter products to these places.

Small companies, however (like Tarptent, Six Moon Designs, Oware, etc), seem willing to take more risk with these laws, probably operating under the theory that silnylon products are intended for advanced backpackers who understand the fire risks. However, the first time that someone is seriously burned in a silnylon shelter and brings a lawsuit against a manufacturer, I'm guessing this could all change.

Many lightweight shelters sold by larger companies now use a combo silicone/polyurethane coating on tent fabrics that does satisfy the fire retardancy laws. This double coating, although heavier, also allows the seams to be taped and makes the fabric somewhat more waterproof, helping to mostly solve problem #2 (below).

The second issue is that if the silicone impregnation is applied too lightly, rain will eventually find its way through the fabric, usually in the form of a fine mist. If the rain comes down hard and long enough, this mist can add a non-trivial amount of moisture to the interior of the shelter. I've designed and built several silnylon shelters and can verify from experience that this is true.

On a good day, standard silnylon is only waterproof to 1-2 PSI. However, as the fabric ages with stretching and UV exposure, it can become even less water resistant.

I've never owned a Golite shelter, so I haven't had a chance to examine the fabric myself. Their website, however, makes no mention of PU coatings on SilLite, so I'd guess that the additional fabric weight is probably the result of heavier silicone impregnation and/or the addition of a fire retardancy agent.

There is a variety of silnylon out there. Different types
of nylon and different coatings, even in the 1.3 oz range.
They do not all perform the same, some are higher tear
strength, others more abrasion resistant, some more waterproof, some stretchy, some slick, some calendared.
Any will be good shelter is you set it up tautly and use
good anchors.

Floorless shelters, by definition, can't be certified as
flame retardent, as part of the criteria set out by CA
standards (which everyone seems to have adopted wholesale) is to cut a swatch from the floor and test it in a lab.

The BD mids are either 7×7 (older) or 9×9.

You're right. I edited the above post. Any floor/bug options coming to the Alphas????

Fabric performance in rain is a bit of a moot point as I am shopping for a winter-only shelter. I like the idea of a mid because:

a) it weighs a fraction of what a comparable tent would
b) they're all listed as "bombproof" and "4-season";
c) they're cheap;
d) they're flexible in terms of pitch and function;
e) you can cook in them comfortably and more safely so long as your stove is in the centre,
f) you don't have to be careful about the floor — in fact you can tramp around in your boots and spill your dinner if you want; and mainly…
g) you can dig the floor out to build sleeping benches, sitting benches, cooking shelves, stairs, etc. Basically you can make all the room you need if you're passing time in camp!

The weird thing is that in most of the photos I've found of them in use, they seem to be pitched as supplemental shelters/cooktents/gathering tents with the actual sleeping shelters being Mountain Hardware and MSR bomber shelters all nestled into the snow in the background.

Do many people actually sleep in 'mids in the winter? What are the drawbacks? Are they more/less/equally storm-worthy than traditional mountaineering tents? Do they flap in the wind? So much that you can't sleep or you spend the whole night worried about your roof blowing away?

I can only assume that they're colder than a small double-walled dome tent, but to increase warmth I'd rather carry an extra pound of down than an extra pound of shelter!

Thanks for your comments.

What about using avy probe poles as the pole for a alphamid or pyramid? Does it work well? It would be a good way to multi use some gear when I don't have poles.

I would not consider those shelters bombproof. Though they are pretty storm-worthy, I do not think they are on the level of mountaineering tents. They would probably deflect more than flap in the wind provided they are pitched well. Check out this about a floorless shelter in a blizzard. I think it may not have been properly staked out, and this would have probably happened to any floorless shelter and not just this particular brand.

Thread:
http://www.backpacking.net/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=destinations&Number=91181

Trip participants websites/pictures:
http://www.brilliantmedia.com/bp/winn/index.html
http://www.tothewoods.net/HikingPicturesWinnemucca.html
http://www.stiglu.com/gallery/0512winnemucca

Brian, you make some good points about 'Mids'. I first become interested in the Hex3 b/c it somewhat resembled (in general shape at least) the preferred shelter of certain nomadic tribes of Native Americans. There must have been some good reason that they adopted the Tipi. The knew how to bend wood for other purposes and could have made curved frames and erected other temporary shelters had they wanted to (perhaps some nomadic peoples did??? i don't know). Though we may not precisely understand all of their reasons for preferring such a shelter, we can leverage off of their hundreds of years of experience.

I have personally seen a kifaru tipi (and the largest version at that) stand up to 50mph wind (with estimated bursts up to about 70mph). The wind was so bad the windward walls bowed in almost to the center pole… but the tent held its ground.

Thats not the impressive part though.

We had to take DOWN that beasty in that wind. To test out the tent, we took it down the "wrong" way, by pulling all of the windward stakes.

Defying all logic, and probably physics, the tent continued to stand very firmly with all of the pegs pulled up on the windward side, and about half of the pegs on the leeward side.

I dont pretend to have any knowledge of why this thing wouldnt come down, but it remained stable far beyond anything I could imagine.

The tipi/cone is a very sound design, and barring material failure, I would be forced to question the tent-pitching skills of the operator if it "blew away".

(note: I would imagine this would apply to flat walled pyramid type tents, but Ive never trusted them)

Most stand alone avalanche probes would be too weak.
Probe poles (like trekking poles) would work in all but the
heavy snows. In very heavy snows (West side of the Cascades)
you would want a heavy duty pole or maybe lash several ski
poles together.

As for wind and pyramids:

Use really good anchors.
In snow use a berm around the bottom.
The only place I have found high winds
a problem is in sandy conditions, then I wished
for a floor. Too much grit in my contacts.

Cooking in any tent is hazardous. I don't recommend it.
Remember Scott's expedition, even if they didn't burn
down the tent, they slowly poisoned themselves.