Extending 30 degree bag into mid-20s

For a lot less than 28 ounces, you could get a warmer sleeping bag! Probably close to the same price of the additional clothing, too! You still would want the additional insulation for your pad, though.

A bivvy will add some warmth. What kind of shelter will you be using?

Howdy,

I've used almost exactly the same set up with the Hydrogen, Alpine Light Parka, Down pants, hat, even booties down to around 28-30 but I wouldn't want to do it again. Particularly if you get one of those cold weather nights in which it gets colder than expected or just feels that way with the wind and what not. You'd get a rough night's sleep.

I'd recommend taking the down layers up a notch or simply get a warmer bag/quilt. Make sure you have a good pad too. You definitely don't want to be skimping on the bag/insulation layers and your R-rating underneath. I might be a little cold or paranoid, but I wouldn't want to push it with Neoair small and a thin closed foam layer into the mid 20s. But I've done it and survived and had good trips . . .

"Am I missing any options"?

Yes, a VBL. Doesn't work for everyone though. It does for me and I use some sort on practically every night now below 40 degrees, approx. The most common thing I use is simple plastic bags on my feet…typically the kind that you put bulk foods or produce in. I place them over my bare feet and hold them in place with my socks. The second most commonly used piece is a 1 oz $.99 cent poncho. On my last trip, I used a large plastic bag on my lower body…the type that dry-cleaners place over a garment after being cleaned.

I don't carry a thermometer so don't know how many degrees it adds to my bags. However, I've been experimenting for almost a decade now and can tell a very noticeable difference. Cheap, light and effective.

Just Parka would give you additional 5 degrees and then some

I would be very comfortable into the 20's w/ that setup- assuming these are all items you'd be bringing anyways

I was comfortable on several different occasions w/ my Hydrogen and just a base layer top (Neoair underneath) at or just below freezing

like mike said you should hit it if yr an "average" man according to en-ratings

the alpine light and down pants have a decent amount of down and the hydrogen is a 30F en-rated bag … if yr worried carry a heat sheets survival bag at 4 oz as an emergency VPL … or a garbage bag … and yr set IMO as long as your bottom insulation is sufficient

YMMV of course,

Thanks for your comments everyone.

I will be using a fully enclosed tent (Lightheart Solong) and generally will be expecting daytime temps in the 50-60 and nighttime temps from 27-37.

I think that mid-20's weather would be possible but unlikely, so my target temp for the system will be 27 F or so. With that in mind, I won't bring the Montbell Alpine Light Parka but will bring…

Black Rock Gear Down Hat (1 oz)
3/8 Thinlight pad under my neoair small (5.5 oz)
Montbell UL down jacket and pants (~14 oz)

A few followup questions for everyone:

1. My bag plus Montbell garments plus hat would give me ~15 oz of 800+ fill down. A 25 degree bag would have ~17 oz. So as an "average" sleeper, I would probably be comfortable at 27. Is this logic sound?

2. Is there a need for base layer bottoms if I bring Montbell Down pants? If I swap one for the other I would get a big boost in warmth without much of a weight penalty.

3. If daytime temps are well above freezing, would the extra pad insulation do that much? (since the ground might still be above freezing even if the air is not)

Thanks!

For what it's worth, my wife and I recently got Black Rock Gear down hats from Evan, and he was one of the easiest and nicest people I've worked with. He didn't have in stock what we needed, and went out of his way to make them the next day, drop them in the mail and get them to me in time to surprise my wife on our anniversary. Less than 5 day turnaround time for handmade gear was amazing. And the hats rock — best weight/performance ratio of any piece of gear we own. I don't know that you need it — totally depends on what you're already using — but if this is an excuse to buy a hat, I can't recommend the BRG stuff highly enough.

But back to your original question: what part of you is getting cold? Are your insulating layers loose enough to allow good blood flow? What sort of insulation are you using on the ground? If you're losing your heat to the ground, then a higher R-value sleeping pad may make more difference than adding insulation to your top.

Another option is to look at sleeping bag liners. S2S Reactor or similar bags are a load of bunk, claiming a 10-15 degree increase in warmth, but I'd easily believe I get an extra 5-degrees out of mine. At a little over 8 ounces, it's not the most weight efficient way to add warmth, but it is cheap, comfy and packs small, and has the added benefit of keeping your sleeping bag clean.

I guess my other thought would be to realistically aim lower than you're at. I have often found myself in colder temps than I planned for (or that were forecast). Sometimes you're just in a more exposed, windier place, sometimes you've lost more heat than you planned with elevation gain, sometimes the forecasts are just wrong. I like to have a system I'll be comfortable in with at least a 5-10 degree margin of error.

Talking about the exact merits of prepping for 24 vs. 27 degree temperatures is a little too fine grained for how I prepare for a trip. Prepare for a 20 degree trip, and be happy if you have a few extra degrees of warmth.

Warmer pad. I am a cold sleeper. Below 30 I need something like a Big Angnes Insulated Air Core to stay warm.

id be fine with that style of setup …

however your body is different from mine …

if yr worried … get a blue walmart foam bad for cheap and bring the alpine light

i realize this is BPL … but you dont want to go too light if yr worried or uncertain about how your gear will perform for you the first few times … a few extra oz wont kill you or even make you miserable as long as you watch the weight … too little insulation will make you miserable and can "kill" you or the trip should adverse things happen … ie cold snap, damp bag, tec …

once you figure out the limits, then you can start pushing your limits IMO

Two of the most essential elements, IME, are a VBL and a bivy. Even just your rain jacket will help (if you aren't carrying rain pants), or your wind shell in a pinch.

I had never considered a VBL.

I thought a VBL was most useful in winter temps (rather than "shoulder season temps" that I am likely to experience)and cases where there aren't many opportunities to dry things out. Am I missing something?

Most people don't consider a VBL…particularly if it doesn't have a big name tag on it. "How can free plastic bags keep you warm"? I get razzed on practically every outing.

Preventing vapor from escaping minimizes evoporative cooling. As I mentioned before, I use some form (typically on my feet) nearly every night now when it's below 40 or so. That's my key for getting away with a lighter bag. It can only be pushed so far though. You need to experiment to see what works for you, your gear and given environments.

Rud- I'd echo Eric's comments and consider throwing in the AL parka- mid to high 20's is a little out of the UL parka range IMO, always nice to build in a little leeway this time of year

Mike

Has anyone layered a Montbell Down vest with UL down parka for use in mid-20's temps?

This would give a total of 4 oz down — same as the Alpine Light Jacket but distributed differently.

It seems like this would offer a lot of flexibility.