Jacket for 32 Degrees at Camp

Look at the Eddie Bauer First Ascent "Down Sweater". Minimal features but good 800 fill down and 2 zippered pockets. Will Reitveld gave it a good rating in his comprehensive review of light down jackets.

The First Ascent jackets sometimes go on sale. I got mine for $89. + shipping over a year ago. It was nice to have at 9,000+ ft. in Nevada's Ruby Mountains two weeks ago when evening temps dipped into the 30s.

Seems that light down jackets are becoming a "standard" backpacking item for 4 season use at high altitudes and 3 season use elsewhere. They can greatly extend the temperature range of your sleeping bag provided you have enough room inside and have medium weight long johns. I consider it a safety item, in conjunction with a WPB parka, at higher altitudes.

Eric,

Ive checked out that jacket in the store a while ago – looked really nice.

Im almost more interested to see how a 100g or 60g (primaloft) or the Thermawrap BC w/ 80g exceloft jacket would fare in these conditions. Id like to be able to use this under my shell for resort skiing in the NE, and down is very bulky (even the UL ones).

To pull duel duty for skiing as well I'd look at the thermawrap parka

i've never seen a thermawrap in person, but my nanopuff will do that job for me. it has become my favorite jacket, i wear it alot in winter (even in the city). I don't like hoods so I have the pullover, but there is a jacket and hoody that lots of people use.

just my 0.02

I picked up a nano puff a few weeks ago but quickly resold it since I hated the baggy fit.

The Thermawrap BC has 80g of Their priprioritary insulation so I'm guessing it should be roughly similar, if not warmer.

Can you really wear your nano down to the low 30's while not moving much along with a light baselayer? It hasn't been below 60 by me to even get a feel of jacket warmths.

I debated a down mid-layer but decided on the Thermawrap Parka, and I'm glad I did. Wearing it and a long sleeve lightweight Capilene top and a beanie, I've been comfortable at freezing temperatures doing camp chores. I found that I could sleep in it at freezing temperatures with a light sleeping bag covering my lower body and my arms and chest out of the bag. This experience is partly why I'll be switching to just a lower bag and using a belay/bivy parka on top.

The advantage of a Thermawrap or a Nano Puff is that they stay warm when wet. This is invaluable when doing any aerobic activity, heavy condensation during an extended stay in a tent, or if you get rained on a lot. For just a few ounces of extra weight you get the security and performance of great insulation that's warm when wet.

yeah, cap2 or cap3 for sure. humidity makes a huge difference. It has been my experience that in humid climates the nano is quite warm. warmer than I would have expected. with a shell over it can really hold its own. I don't get cold as easily as a lot of people and will usually use bags 10 deg colder than their rating without any problems. Maybe that's part of my experience. I agree that I would like the nano to fit just a bit tighter but I have been happy so far.

To stay warm at freezing while not moving, I think you would definitely need 100grams, not 60 or 80. Just speaking from experience, and yes that is with an r1 and a cap2 as base layers. Check out Patagonia Micropuff, or even lighter, the Arc'teryx Atom SV.

If you are not set on synthetic, down really does warm you up faster, there is no getting around it! Synthetic does have a certain comfort to it though, good luck!

For me that is an REI fleece baselayer (R1'ish) and a montbell UL down inner jacket underneath a windshirt. Wind pants and a synthetic duofold baselayer on my legs along with goretex socks with wool socks underneath on my feet. It still helps out if I am in an area where we can build a small fire :)

+1 on the baselayer, montbell u.l. down inner jacket, and windshirt. I just use a wool long sleeve for about total of 14 oz. Or you could get the alpine montbell it's a bit thicker, warmer, and only about 12 oz.

If you get the montbell it's technically just an insulation layer so under a shell for skiing would be perfect. It's more durable than i thought it would be. I thought I had ripped it several times but even after a snag I'd look and there's not even a blemish.

Would the montbell down inner be thicker than the synthetics? From what I've seen in the stores even the lightweight down sweaters seem a lot puffier than the synthetics.

My down inner doesn't seem overly puffy. I bought it to replace a 200wt fleece jacket and it isn't that much thicker when worn than the fleece.

"The advantage of a Thermawrap or a Nano Puff is that they stay warm when wet. This is invaluable when doing any aerobic activity, heavy condensation during an extended stay in a tent, or if you get rained on a lot. For just a few ounces of extra weight you get the security and performance of great insulation that's warm when wet"

I think you're giving synthetic a bit too much credit here. Synthetic loses less warmth than down when it gets wet, but it still loses a substantial amount of warmth. The whole 'warm when wet' thing is pretty misleading. You're still in trouble if you really do get it wet.

"+1 on the baselayer, montbell u.l. down inner jacket, and windshirt"

IMO, the UL Down Inner is a bit out-gunned for 32F temps. Even at 40F, I'm heading for the tent a bit early with a baselayer, UL Down Inner, windshirt and a beanie on. Instead of trying to use the UL Down Inner as a do-it-all 3 season piece, I sold mine and bought an Ex-light vest for summer use and the Alpine Light jacket for the shoulder seasons. The Alpine Light might be a bit overkill for the OP's needs, but insulation is one of those areas where it really sucks when you mis-judge and don't bring enough.

The new Frost Smoke parka from Montbell might be the perfect thing for the OP's needs. It's halfway between the UL down inner and the Alpine Light in terms of warmth and total weight. So it's got 3.5oz of down (vs. 2.5oz in the UL Down Inner) and a total weight of 12.5 oz. It's got more durable fabrics in high wear areas and a longer cut than the other Montbell jackets which is great because most Montbell stuff fits pretty short in the torso. An extra 2" of length is great news.

Eric,

Well, if you want a synthetic insulated jacket I'd go for a Climashield or Thermolite fill over a Primaloft fill. Im my experience Peimaloft more rapidly loses its loft and becomes merely "Prima".

Climashield appears to have the best loft retention of the synthetic fills. In any case don't stuff it tightly if possible. Use a stuffsack about twice the size you'd use for a down jacket of comparable loft.

A little off topic, but how warm would something like the R1 be? Since its made of Powerdry it seems like warmth is not its main purpose. This is also shown by a CLO chart I saw a while ago on this site. However in the Patagonia catalog I received today all of the ski dedicated "outfits" they showed they used a cap 2/3 baselayer, R1, and a shell. I like the idea of fleece solely from the form fitting bulk-less look.

Dan:
The frostsmoke parka seems like it would work well, but Im not sure how I feel about doubling up on the hood since my shell obviously has one as well.

Eric:
Yes, I have heard that before about primaloft – however I'm not too hardcore and probably won't be using this gear as much as I would like, so I'm not TOOO worried, however it is in the back of my mind.

the R1 isn't overly warm on it's own, maybe like a 100 weight fleece- where it really shines though is on the move- breathes well and dries quickly- but it's no replacement for a insulating layer at temps approaching freezing imo

everyone's metabolism differs, mine tends towards the warmish side- w/ a LS Cap 1, Exlight jacket, windshirt (light beanie/gloves) I'm good to around freezing in camp- I wouldn't want it any colder than that though

I agree w/ Dan that the "warm when wet" thing is a little overplayed w/ syn vs down, if your operating in a very wet environment I think syn definitely has some advantages over down- weight not being one of them

the WM Flash would certainly be suitable at freezing, the price tag hurts though

I have a nanopuff, it's a nice piece but it wouldn't cut it at freezing w/ just a light base layer, light base layer + R1 + nanopuff and you'd be fine

the micropuff would probably be a better bet in syn over the nano in and around freezing temps

For the kind of temps your talking about, the R1/MB down inner wouldn't be warm enough–not for sitting around. I use an R1 with the Montbell Alpine Light jacket for temps in the 30's. It's quite a bit warmer than the down inner jacket for only a few more ounces.

1. If yr skiing in it down might nit be the best idea … Even if you only put it on at stops you want something that goes OVER ye shell

2. If yr active, a fleece works better for that, youll sweat a down or synth out under a shell unless its quite cold

3. The r1 is an active layer, u wear it when moving, it is not warm at stops at that temp

4. Down or synth will work for static situations, down does require more care especially with sticky snow

5. For static situations id would go with 100gm primaloft one for freezimg temps min … Micropuff …. Dead bird uses something called coreloft which is likely not as efficient, cross off antthing with primaloft sport or eco unless u get a hell of a sceaming deal … PL1 is 20% more insulating than the cheaper insulation

"I use an R1 with the Montbell Alpine Light jacket for temps in the 30's."

Yep, this is the basic configuration that provides the greatest warmth & flexibility. A couple of years ago, Richard N. posted up a clo analysis that concluded that a wind shirt + 100 wt fleece/poly provided the greatest range while active. Add to that the loft/warmth the MB AL provides while inactive (sitting and/or camp chores), and you've got everything from 30-75 degrees covered.

Rather than take both a wind shirt & rain shell, I ended up with the Patagucci Torrentshell pullover to handle double duty along with my polypro LS t-shirt. Of course, it doesn't breath that well, but it serves the dual purpose very well. And at only 10oz, it's very light for the range it provides. In fact, with this set up, I've completely discarded taking any polartec mid, whether it be 100, 200 or 300 wt, since I can use the AL under the shell.

As to down vs syn, I have a syn quilt for its semi fail-safe nature. That is, your last line of defense is the bag – if that goes down, you're pretty much SOL. I figure I can protect the down mid layer with either my shell, or, still being awake, go under a tree/rock. If all else fails, I can always hike out.

With a bag, presumably you're asleep, it's dark/night time, and you're undressed (or in LJs). Since there's no easy way out @ that point, I figure it's worth the slight extra weight/bulk. Of course, that's the point of the quilt in and of itself: to get the weight down a little closer to a comparable down bag while narrowing the comfort range.

Layer a synthetic piece appropriately and they're adequate for 32F static camp use, just know that supplemental insulation (solid baselayer and midlayer) will be required to get there, especially with the lightweight 60g equivalents you've mentioned (Thermawrap, NanoPuff).

Those pieces aren't solid cold weather (freezing) stand alone pieces IMO, they're intended for stop and go active pursuits where you're really producing a lot of heat, and need brief periods of warmth and protection from wind and moisture during rests or belays. Sitting around at camp in a 60g synthetic jacket at 32F is silly IMO, not the ideal piece for the job, especially when there are significantly lighter down pieces that will keep you quite a bit warmer and pack down smaller.