ID Event Unishelter leaking? – PJ, Ryan?

[Repeated reply from another Thread.]

Ques: Have i ever gotten wet/damp in the ID eVENT Uni?
Short Ans: Yes.
Long Ans: Yes, damp from internal condensation.

The rainflap/overhang at the head end allows venting when it’s raining, this coupled with the tunnel vent works fairly well IF there is a breeze. Doesn’t work if there is no breeze.

The ID eVENT Uni is mainly designed for the type of weather they get in the Canadian Rockies is what the designer of the Uni told me in a telcon (relatively dry and windy was how it was described, though i was told that there was no reason why i couldn’t use the eVENT Uni in humid, rainy New England. I’m using mine in an unintended climate situation.

I’ve never had a pond forming inside.

Here’s my take (i.e. guess) on Terasawa-san’s leakage issue.

Normally, i’d say that one is confusing condensation under humid, no breeze conditions, particularly when it’s difficult to exhale one’s breath outside of the Uni (due to the 25″ peak height in contrast to the typically much lower wire stiffened peak’s of many bivy shelters which make it easier to do this).

However, a “pond” is too much moisture, IMHO, to be attributed to condensation.

My guess is a defective zipper, or possibly the zipper somehow was oriented skyward and water pooled on the zipper.

ID uses, on their eVENT bivies, a self-sealing zipper similar to the one used on their rain jackets. I’m guessing that perhaps(???) the zipper was paritally damaged in one location during normal use. NOTE that this self-sealing zipper is used on ID’s eVENT Uni, Bugaboo, and their new Crysallis. The ID website photo of the Crysallis [click ‘me’ – i’m a hyperlink] showing the rain flap over the zipper is, IIRC, an OLD photo of their pre-eVENT version made from TegralTex (this photo was in use for a few years BEFORE ID even introduced the eVENT version of the Crysallis). Compare that photo with the photo of the eVENT Crysallis found HERE – particularly see the second pic which more clearly shows what, IMHO, is identical to the self-sealing zipper on my eVENT Uni and that there is no rain flap over the zipper.

ID states that there is NO skyward facing zipper. The zipper in the eVENT Crysallis and eVENT Uni is sideward facing. This is supposed to prevent water pooling on top of the zipper.

After reading Terasawa-san’s post, i decided to recheck my eVENT Uni for water leakage.

First off, a couple of years ago or so, before ever using my eVENT Uni, i gave it a 20min shower in my shower with me inside. Zero water penetration over that 20min period. Shower was perhaps equivalent to a moderate to heavy rain out in the open with no tarp or tree cover to hamper the “rainfall”.

So, now after reading Terasawa-san’s post, i did four tests of my somewhat used eVENT Uni (over two dozen nights of use – normally if i’m expecting heavy rain, or it is raining heavily, i use a PT in a lean-to pitch over the bivy – not always, but often, and/or pitch the bivy under tree cover – which is far more frequent).

Test #1: Ran water from the kitchen sink faucet over the bivy zipper. Faucet was on full-blast and zipper was 2″ from faucet. Within two seconds, STANDING WATER ON THE ZIPPER penetrated to the inside. Easily enough penetrated to create a pond during the course of a night’s use.

Test #2: From a distance of 12″-18″ from the zippered self-sealing zipper which was unnaturally vertically oriented instead of horizontally oriented as it would be in actual use, blasted the zipper from the kitchen’s sink’s spray nozzle with the water on full-blast. Much better, i literally found just two drops of water after 60seconds of spraying. The spray was quite forceful and water pressure was perhaps similar to or greater than a torrential downpour (similar to perhaps 4″ of rainfall per hour). I repeated this test on a dry area of the zipper using just a light to moderate sprinkle which was not very forceful. ZERO water penetration in a sixty second test.

Test #3: Oriented zipper horizontally as it would be in actual use and sprayed for sixty seconds just as in step #2 (12″-18″ away, so a forceful full-blast spray) fabric just above zipper and water ran down side of bivy fabric over zipper and continued down. ZERO water penetration afer sixty seconds of high velocity spray NOT directly on the zipper (other than perhaps some incidental forceful spray).

Test #4: 20minute shower test as performed before first use of the bivy. Zipper once again NOT directly being “rained” upon. ZERO water penetration through the zipper.

I would agree with Terasawa-san that a rain flap is superior to a self-sealing zipper.

The key to use of the self-sealing zipper seems to be to not orient the zipper so that water can pool on it. My simple testing shows that it is possible for pooling water to enter through the zipper (of course, in my simple test it might have also been the pressure of the water flow from the faucet which was only 2″ away which forced the pooled water through the zipper – we really need better testing than i did to be sure).

Regarding a comparison of the Uni with the Bibler Tripod bivy, which i intend to purchase one day if i’m going to be winter camping when snowfall is expected. Of course, having only one head end pole to wrestle with instead of two poles (like in the Bibler Tripod), the head end must be staked out to give it some shape (which is a bit loose and not completely taut). Of course, the Tripod is staked at the footend since it uses only one pole there. I would imagine that the Tripod is better at handling snow loading and in particular compression of one’s sleeping bag due to that snow loading, if it is tightly pitched since it has both head and foot end poles. Any bivy should be staked down to prevent strong winds from blowing it away when a person might be out of it (e.g. nighttime nature call).

I also repeated the faucet and spray nozzle tests (not the shower test) with my ID eVENT rain jacket. Essentially, similar results were acheived. Test #1 – water readily penetrated through the zipper after a couple of seconds. Test #2: did the vertical direct spray test twice as the first 60second test, no water penetrated the rain jacket. Repeated Test #2 and the second time had four drops that i could find. No water penetrated when Test #3 was performed.

Nah. I'm a hack (and a windbag).

Trail magazine over in the UK commissioned a study of waterproof zips at Leeds University Textiles Unit. They found that in typical outdoor scenarios the zips DO leak – especially on clothing where the zip does not run in a straight line and where flex may occur in the clothing. The conclusion was that the WP zips need storm flaps (preferably two) to ensure stormproof protection

I'm a hug bivy fan (I've got 5 of them!) but I dont have the ID Uni…… yet

My g0d, pj, I uzed to kall mis3lf a tezt enginear; u realli r 1! Etcelent!
[note: edited to get by the strict BPL profanity filters currently in effect]

I agree on the Andy's article.
Leaking comes from its bend section. I observed it from inside of bivy(eVent Uni.).
But, it seems leaking already occurred at the straight part. I caught it as an optical reflection of my headlight.
If there is no bend section it will occur at the end part of it.
Zipper without rain flap is like a channel for the strong rain. Rain drops are stemmed along it and begin to run on it!

for anyone that wants to see a nice pic of a WP zipper somewhat similar to that used on the ID eVENT bivies, i just came across this pic in another Post.

it’s easy to see why an edgewise bend would pucker a straight zipper a bit, allowing water to easily penetrate. a gentle flatwise bending, like in the pic, looks better.
however, any skyward facing zipper is a ripe candidate for leaking, IMHO. even facing sideways, while i haven’t yet had problems, i do wonder when it starts to wear what will happen. Rainflaps over a cheaper zipper are the foolproof way to go, IMHO. I thank Terasawa-san for bringing this to my attention. I think i’ll find someone to sew a rain flap on my eVENT Uni. Of course the flap will need seam/thread sealing afterwards, but that’s no big deal – it’s to be expected. yeah…, i’m big on insurance; one can’t be too careful. Nunquam non paratus (never not prepared).

having said all that, the pic linked to above shows a WP zip of the type used on camera/optic/electronics bags to protect those pieces of equipment that would be damaged by exposure to wetting. i gotta’ believe that they do work to some degree, even though on those bags/pockets/pouches those WP zippers do generally face skyward.

since i don’t use these types of equipment, i have no first-hand experience with WP zips used in those applications.

So, has anyone out there used such bags/pockets/pouches w/WP zips? If so, have you had rain penetration? If so, has it worked (or not worked) well for you?

We’d really like to know and learn from your experiences.

Lastly, can the WP zipper surface be sprayed with something that would make it very unlikely that water would want to seep through via capillary action? This would be a spray product that would reduce the adhesion of the WP zipper surface and edges so that it is less than the cohesion of the water molecules, if i’m not mistaken. Any ideas here?

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I’m still interested in buying a usable/functional, in relatively good condition, used/second-hand eVENT Crysallis with zipper rainflap if anyone has one that they are willing to part with.