Backpacking in the snow

hey all
The idea of a fire was not so much for the warmth, I just love sitting by a fire at night when I am in the back country. But from all the replies, it doesnt seem to worth it.
SO how many extra pairs of clothes do you bring when you go? Obviously extra socks and gloves are very important, but what about other articles of clothing? And if you do get stuff wet, how do you dry it out without a fire?

Thanks
Dan

Here is a trip report of some snow camping a few of us BPL folks did a couple of years ago. Sorry, no hyperlink.
There are some good pictures of how we packed down the snow at camp.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=29124

"And if you do get stuff wet, how do you dry it out without a fire?"

Back up to the one big rule about never getting wet.

If you are getting wet from sweat, then you are wearing your clothing layers wrong.

If you have some minor item like thin gloves or socks, then you can dry them out mostly. When you slip into your sleeping bag for the night, and assuming that you sleep on your back, you lay the minor items on your chest. If you are wearing some layers, then lay the minor items between layers. Then overnight your body warmth will dry them out somewhat. Unfortunately, that moisture is driven outward into your sleeping bag, so it is nice to be able to sun-bake your sleeping bag interior in the morning.

Your body warmth is similar to that of a 75 watt incandescent light bulb. That isn't a lot, but if you can harness it properly, you can dry out some things. Obviously that requires your body to be well-fed.

–B.G.–

@Dan. In wet weather, I always go out in the woods with a way to crosscut and split small pieces of standing deadwood. Hypothermia is your biggest danger, and imo it's stupid to not have that ability. You can get a folding saw weighing 6 oz. I think it's worth it. You would probably use it a lot. It's far more important than having a first aid kit. If all of your stuff gets wet and it's below freezing out, you are likely going to die without a way to dry it all out.
But you are right, a lounging fire might be more effort than you would want. However, you can avoid bringing extra clothing for hanging around camp with a fire. It's up top you.

I just bring one extra pair of socks, 1-2 pairs thin liner gloves, and 1 pair warm gloves for sitting around camp or emergency. I also usually have a light fleece beanie and a really warm hat. Also, an insulating jacket/parka and maybe insulated pants.

Synthetics are generally colder than wool when wet, but dry quickly. Wool dries more slowly, but is warmer than synthetics when wet. This means that in general, wool is a good option for things like socks and pants which are likely to remain wet for a long time, and synthetics are a good option for things which are easier to dry or more critical to remain dry. Thin layers of merino wool dry pretty fast though. I like wool socks and a little merino wool blended with polyester base layer pants. (Although, I intend to try synthetic soft shell pants this winter.) I often hike in a light fleece hat, and it's soaked with sweat before I even realize it. A merino wool hat lets me know that it's soaked with a slightly cold, clammy feel. With the fleece hat, a few slaps of it against a pants leg makes it feel dry again, not so with the merino wool hat.

Edit 1: Regarding fire, I don't carry anything more than a 4" Mora fixed blade knife (3.2 oz) which I baton to split wood 3" diameter or less. This is usually sufficient for a 2-3 hour fire in less-traveled areas.

Edit 2: I also look forward to trying out a new canister gas stove this winter. It'll be nice to have a hot meal and not have to work for a campfire or fiddle with an alcohol stove. It'll also be critical to keep the canister warm though.

I have a pocket rocket stove. How do canister stoves like that perform in cold weather?

The performance of canister top stoves in the cold is dictated by the gas mixture used. All is explained here:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/effect_of_cold_on_gas_canisters.html

"I have a pocket rocket stove. How do canister stoves like that perform in cold weather?"

Climbers use stoves like that on mountains, so they are ok in cold – if the elevation is high enough. On low elevations you need to specially select the gas and you still end up carrying back canisters with lots of gas inside.

Depending on how cold it can get, and how long I'm staying, I choose either white gas or liquid feed canister stove. Actually even some alcohol stove designs can be used in the cold, Finnish army still uses Trangias for melting snow for water and cooking food, but melting is quite slow job with alcohol burner. Even with white gas/canister I try to find liquid water instead of snow as often as possible as is saves both fuel and time.

Stoves also melt the snow underneath them, so some preparations are needed. Some stoves can be hanged from a tree/tripod, some need a plate underneath them. If you are hiking below the treeline, the lightest option would be building a platform from dead branches but not all stoves are stable enough to be used with this trick.

If you have iso-butane rather than butane, which most canisters are, upright stove will slow down and stop working below 30 F or 20 F.

Then you have to resort to things like putting the canister into a tub of water.

Or use an inverted stove but they're heavier and more expensive.

Roger's article (link above) has a lot of interesting info but probably readable only by members.

Our group uses gas stoves. I have a nice collection of vintage MSR stoves now, the X-GK lineup is what I'm going to use this winter, I usually use my International from '89, so I have a bunch of stoves to try out as I have a dozen or so of the oldies.
Duane