New and need advice on a shelter.

This would give you both a tent or a tarp, AND it would fit you…
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?id=vqLyWALM:74.205.150.83&forum_thread_id=52530&skip_to_post=443352#443352

Do you know of someone you'll be going on trips with? Are you sure you want to share a tent with them? If you don't know of someone, you might end up going out with a group of people you don't know well, making sharing a tent something only the most extraverted might be willing to do.

4 lbs isn't bad for two person tent if there are two people sharing it. Many use solo tents which are around 2 lbs.

Just some random, non-definitive thoughts I'll throw out:

The lightest option is a small tarp and water repellent bivy bag. Site selection would be a critical factor in the high mountains.

A Tarptent Moment would be a nice solo shelter. It seems like you'd have enough room. I have one, but I'm 5'9". My only complaint is that it feels slightly claustrophobic at the head end.

A Tarptent Rainbow/Double Rainbow would give you more room overall, but probably less simplicity and wind/snow stability.

The Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1 looks nice–saw one this weekend. With additional stakes, guylines, seam sealing, and extra silicone coating on my Moment's floor (both sides, many don't see a need to do this), the Copper Spur only weighs around 5 oz more. With this, you'd be able to skip the seam sealing. And, the inner is polyurethane coated. This means you won't have the slipperiness issues on the floor or possible misting through the fly as with silnylon. But, the poly coating weakens the fabric some, and it will deteriorate if the tent isn't stored totally dry or stored in a hot garage/attic. With the CS, you could also pitch it without the fly or just with the fly and a groundsheet (no inner). I think I may have read that someone had some issue with the CS in strong wind though. The owner I talked to was very happy with his tent, and you'll find at least an equal number of happy Tarptent owners. I'm happy with my Moment, but might try a CS just because the grass is always greener at the campsite on the other side of the mountain. :)

There are many other options out there which someone else will mention.

Re: "The lightest option is a small tarp and water repellent bivy bag. Site selection would be a critical factor in the high mountains."

Or go with a tarp large enough for full coverage so site selection is less of an issue.
In fact, I find that a tarp/ultralight bivy gives better site selection options. The flexible pitch options of a tarp allows you to fit into tight or uneven areas.

Example; sleep between rocks, bushes and trees, even if you only have a two feet wide ground space.

If gale force winds are in the forecast, pitch against something that would act as a windbreak.

You don't have as many options with the shaped type tents, but maybe you don't want to take the time to study tarp camping?
If that is the case a tarptent style may be your best choice.

Study the articles on BPL for some ideas or get Mike Clelland's new book "Ultralight Backpacking Tips". Of course there are many other good ultralight books out there.

I have been looking at some options myself.

I have noticed what appears to be a trend toward shaped tarps which are often called "pyramids" or "mids" of relatively smaller size.
This allows a bit more protection from wind and rain, from a smaller lighter tarp which is shaped to cover at least 3 sides.
Some popular mids lately have been the ZPacks Hexamid, and the MLD Trailstar, and the BearPaw Cub Den. Getting some slightly larger ones like the Hexamid Solo-Plus, or the Duomid, or Cub Den 2 gives a little more weather protection at only a little extra weight.
Flat tarps and catenary A-Frame tarps are still popular with many, but I do see the trend moving toward the shaped tarps.

Another trend I'm noticing is that bug bivy inner tents are popular for more than just bugs.
A bug bivy inner tent(or "nest") gives some protection from condensation inside a tent, and behaves like a double-wall tent in that regard. Condensation can be an issue in certain conditions, and it can be unpleasant in a small shelter, or in a bivy bag. And a bug-bivy inner tent can give some flexibility over a tent with bugscreen sewn-on, because if it's not wanted, you can leave it home, or if you don't expect any rain, you can sleep in just the bug bivy.

As for materials, the silnylon seems to remain the standard, and is a good ratio of performance to cost. It does tend to sag after a while, especially in rain, so you may have to re-tighten the guy lines under some circumstances during the night.
Cuben Fiber won't sag, and is very light, but it is very expensive in comparison to silnylon. Spinnaker cloth seems to be on the way out because the latest material hasn't been showing good waterproof qualities, and people are moving away from that now, although it did well for years in the past.

It seems that a small tarp with bivy bag can weigh similar or more than a larger tarp without a bivy bag, so your needs will dictate those decisions.
Remember, condensation will happen to everybody in certain weather conditions, and ventilation seems to be the way to minimize it. Larger shelters seem to be less problematic than small shelters for condensation. More open type shelters may fare better than closed-in shelters for condensation. Double-wall tents or shelters with internal bug-bivy inner tents will mitigate the condensation that actually would contact you or your sleeping bag. If you plan to use a bivy bag, you need to read up on condensation affecting it, especially if you are going to use it in sub-freezing weather.

You don't have to break the bank to be happy with this stuff. Great leaps forward in designs have been made over the last 10 years, and you can get very nice stuff for very affordable prices.

A tarp tent rainbow is as big as some of the other manufactures 2 person tents (40 inch wide floor fits to mats). It would make a big single person tent and is fairly light.

SOLO TENTS:

TT Moment > options are liner and crossing pole to make it freestanding

TT Rainbow > liner option as well and hiking poles at each end to make it freestanding

TT Scarp > two options for inner tent (mesh or mostly ripstop) plus fly-only pitch or inner-only pitch

TWO PERSON TENTS:

TT Double Rainbow > same options as solo Rainbow

TT Scarp 2 > same options as Scarp 1

What kind of price are you looking for? It seems that you are concerned?
In the research I have done, unless you want to go the used route, you are looking at $250 – $300 minimum to get a lightweight 2 person fully enclosed tent with bug protection that fits a 6ft 4 guy.

Some cheap options…
1) Ditch the bug protection/enclosed idea and buy a mid. If you find you have to have bug protection you can always cough up the dough for an inner net later.
2) Ditch the solo idea and look at the skyscape scout from six moon designs. Its a solo, fully enclosed, around $115, fits a tall guy, about 2 pounds.

Don't worry too much about settling on one shelter right away. It is difficult to narrow down shelter options to a single "do-it-all" shelter, especially when one is transitioning to UL ideas. Most people have gone through numerous iterations and still keep multiple shelters, because we need them or just because we're gear-heads and can't part with an old beloved shelter.

You should try a tarp + bivy system, but realize that you may go back to a single-wall shelter with optional netting or even a traditional double-wall shelter. Buy a silnylon tarp that is reasonable in price and you can always sell it if you don't use it. You can often read posts here where someone writes how they keep going back to a certain shelter, even when they have other ones and you will probably settle on one too after trial-and-error experiments.

It is a process, but a fun process!

Besides the SMD Skyscapes (the Scout version is a great option at $125.00 as an entry-point silnylon double-wall shelter), the Lightheart Gear SoLong is a similar design and made specifically for taller hikers: http://www.lightheartgear.com/

For being a beginning backpacker, I would recommend the Copper Spur UL1. It is rather light for a freestanding double wall with above average size. Plus, you get a tent without any "fuss factor" like tarps or single walls have. Once you get the hang of things. You could will know what you want in a shelter. You may just want one that is simple to use but weighs a little more (double wall) or you may not care about fussing with a tarp setup as long as it saves weight. It can be an entertaining thing to see what configuration works out the best.

I started out with double walls, switched to tarps and pyramids to save weight, and now am starting to use free standing double walls again, just for the ease of setup and my preceived better weather protection.

I have a CS2 and love it. Share it with my girlfriend so the weight is awesome. I would like to try a solo copper spur as well. They are 25% off at REI right now too.

I would go for the Hubba Hubba. Double walled to manage condensation, almost vertical walls means more than enough room for someone your height and a ton of overall volume (4 large guys can easily play cards in one), easy to set up, proven in the backcountry, completely freestanding (the problem with all Big Agnes tents is the continued reliance on pegs to make them 'freestanding').

Down the road get a cheap bivy and tarp and start experimenting.

My Two Cents:

Hubba Hubba or Copper Spur are very good tents. They may be as good as you can get at REI (if you happen to shop there). Of course, try them out and make sure they fit you.

I would go with a single wall or double walled shelter. Tarps are the lightest, but if you plan on hiking in the Sierra's or the Northwest in mid-summer, you'll want the bug protection. I use a tent as much to escape the bugs as I do to protect me from rain.

A double walled tent is really nice, but may not be necessary given the type of trips you plan on taking. The nice thing about a short trip (3 or 4 days) is that you have a really good idea what the weather will be like. You can adjust your trip accordingly (including canceling it). This means that you are unlikely to spend several days in foggy conditions (where a double walled tent is really valuable). Likewise, if you use a down bag, any loss in loft (due to additional condensation) will be less of an issue (since it won't have as much time to build up).

The cottage test makers are amazing. In very few industries do you see the smaller manufacturers not only make the best stuff, but make stuff that is the best value. I would definitely look at the various tents made by the cottage makers, especially TarpTent and Six Moons.

Tents are always being developed. I wouldn't get a two person tent just because you might share it with someone someday. I would wait until you really will share it. That being said, it might make sense for you to get a two person tent just for solo use. I know people who do that.

You are 6'4". While that might be ordinary (if not downright short) on a basketball court, that is tall in the real world. Picking a tent is very hard, but you've got a built in reason to weed out a few tents. I would consider renaming this thread or just starting a new one ("Looking for a Tall Person Tent"). You might also search for that sort of thing.

Many on this list are fans of tarps.

I agree with the majority's opinion about the Hubba Hubba or Copper Spur and other domes being very good tents, but only if you like being crammed in an enclosed space with the sense of isolation from the outside world.

The reason that some prefer the tarp direction is that you can be less cramped and have more flexibility with your shelter. You can have a lot more floor space under a tarp, but can enclose yourself into a coffin as well if that is your preference.

Keep in mind that a tarp can be a double walled bomb proof shelter or just a wind break, sun shade or rain shelter, which is usually all you need.
Add a bug net or bug bivy for bug protection and you have the flexibility to have a shelter that can be what you want it to be.

The big gotcha about tarps is that you have to be comfortable with tarp camping skills and they can take more effort to pitch when conditions are gnarly.

Wow, thanks for all the responses! There is certainly a lot to think about but reading your responses has really made me narrow down on what I will actually use right now. I really don't have anyone I've talked to about backpacking so getting a two person space is really an in case scenario which I can deal with later. So the two person room is really not as important as I initially thought. Looking for something that provides ample room for my height will be key.

I am also curious how single walled tarp tents do near the ocean? It seems like the fog and dew would really come in and condense and just curious what peoples experiences are along the coast.

I definitely want something with bug protection that's fully enclosed but I'm leaning either way on the single wall vs. double wall.

The Tarptent Rainbow looks really good as well as some of the Six Moon Designs shelters.

Any opinions on the MSR carbon reflex 1 if you could get it in the mid 200's? Thanks again.

If I could get a MSR Carbon Reflex 1 in the $200s, I think I would buy it. You can always sell it later or keep it as an expensive car camping tent, but it gets you hiking still inside a comfort zone. Then start saving towards an 8×10 tarp (definitely enough room for your height, with room for gear on the side) and bivy. Maybe something from Oware.com or the Gossamer Gear SpinnTwinn (popular here, made of spinnaker cloth).

If you do start hiking with a partner who needs a shelter, they can use the Reflex and the total weight for both will still be around or under 4 lbs. Sometimes it is easier to find two smaller sites, than one big enough for a 2P tent and sometimes it is nice to have a little space to yourself, even if it is smaller than what you would have in a big tent.

Edit: just saw Gossamer Gear has the silnylon version of the Twinn (a "cosmetic second", but if it's on the site, I wouldn't think twice about it's quality) under "Deals!" for $110.00 instead of $140.00.

The Scarp 1 is a great tent, its a bit heavier than what I would like yo carry but whats a couple of hundred extra grams for a palace that can handle most weather that's thrown at it.

I tried out a really small tent once and it was like a coffin :-)

Hi David,
Lots of ideas here, here's mine. Go secondhand into the gear swap section of this site. Pick up a bargain, and go try it out. Then sell it on gear swap and try something else.

FWIW I'm 6'8" and have found the Golite Hex3 (Shangri La 3 now) to be light enough for solo use fly only, big enough for two (three at a pinch) and strong enough for mountains. It does have a big footprint though, and the standard inner tent is heavy. I made one out of an old bugnet and a sheet of tyvek that weighs a pound. Or you could use silicone to stick a strip of bug netting round the perimeter and tear it off again for winter.

For solo use or for two if you're thin and friendly, the first reply you got is a good option for an all rounder.