Tips for a cold sleeper who feels cold well above his quilt rating…

"Could it be that I didn't eat or drink enough before sleeping? I didn't go to bed hungry or anything. Does that sort of thing make a really big difference?"

That would do it for me. If I eat a light meal and then try to sleep, the lack of calories will catch up to me about mid-way through the night. This is especially true if I had covered a lot of miles that day.

Try eating what you normally eat, and then add on a few ounces of meat and cheese, plus maybe an extra hot drink.

A friend of mine (a nutrition teacher) claimed that the best evening meal was one that was thermally hot and also spicy hot.

–B.G.–

What were you wearing on your head? I'm a cold sleeper and I've found what I wear on my head makes a big difference in my overall body temperature. When I don't have enough insulation on my head I'll wake up and have trouble falling back asleep. Once I put another layer on my head I'm able to fall back asleep. Of course this usually occurs in the early morning hours. In the cooler temperatures I'll wear a MH fleece-like balaclava and a down balaclava over it. In warmer temps I'll wear a BPL synthetic insulation balaclava over the MH balaclava. Recently I've been experimenting with wearing a Ibex Indie wool hoody with a Black Rock Gear down hat over it.

Maybe it was colder than you thought? Did you have a thermometer to tell you how cold it really was?

I was just out in the Immigrant Wilderness two weeks ago and it was around 35* per my cheap REI thermometer. I was a bit cold in my 35* bag the first night too. So, the next night I zipped up the door and rear window most of the way (was fully open the first night), wore pants, shirt, and draped my down jacket over me and had socks and a fleece beanie and I think fleece gloves. I inflated my pad more as well. And I also ate at 7:30 PM and snacked up until bedtime. ….With all that, I was pretty comfy the next two nights and my thermometer noted that temps were reletively the same as the first night when I was cold.

With your quilt and it's rating, you'll probably need to make sure to keep drafts to a minimum. And try not to go to bed cold. Hope all this helps.

IF your butt was cold, chances are your pad provides insufficient warmth for your needs. Have you tried the foam/air combo? I know all these air mats are rated to low degrees, but I'm not convinced yet ( I have a BA insulated Aircore, that I have yet to test in cold weather)

However, wearing a WOOL hat and socks will go a long way in keeping your body tempt toasty during the night. Also, i recommend switching to wool longs. Wool is superior for insulating in every way.

The food thing also helps quite a bit. When i camp I always try to cook a fresh stew or soup. ( can be done with jerky and dehydrated stuff, or fresh. I go fresh for weekends, and dehydrated for longer. ) Eating a full belly of hot food and drink before bed will help quite a bit.

btw I was not wearing a hat–but, strangely, my head did not feel cold (wtf?).

Also, yeah I was in Emigrant Wilderness. As for the temperatures, I can only go by what's reported by the local weather stations (http://www.sonic.net/~mfreeman/weather.htm)

thanks again.

rhz

If the hat doesn't solve the issue, maybe try some insulated clothing like the Montbell Thermawrap pants. You get the added benefit of having something warm to walk around in in the morning. But also consider it's an extra 10 oz you'd be carrying. I'd only add that if I was wearing all my clothing AND was still cold at night.

Mike

Yeah, I actually have WM flash pants. I didn't bring them because I thought it would be overkill. I was wrong.

Thanks.

I'm not convinced by the Neoair rating either. Before you spend any cash, i would try a foam mat on top of the Neoair.

btw I was not wearing a hat–but, strangely, my head did not feel cold (wtf?).

A hat (even better, a balaclava) makes a big difference for me. Light wool socks and knit gloves help me too because I have trouble getting back to sleep if fingers, toes or nose feel cold.

You'll often hear (read?) that xx% of your body's heat loss is through your head. While that kind of statement is most often BS, blood flow to your head does increase if the head is not warm enough (keeping the brain happy) so you can lose a lot of heat via an uncovered head and neck. A 2 oz Smartwool balaclava does the trick at 40*F or a bit colder.

As mentioned by others, adequate (or inadequate) caloric intake makes a difference too. One "trick" is to bring a high calorie snack to bed with you (snickers bar!). Eating triggers a boost of metabolic rate … I'm not sure how long that lasts but it seems to be long enough to get me through the coldest hour or so of the night if I have awaken chilled.

Anything rated at 30F really means 45F—real world numbers because a nice lofted dry quilt or bag at home will be less lofted and moist in the field, hence a lower warming capacity. Winter backpackers always amaze me by their refusal to carry decent sleeping bags—something in 0F or -15F category. Too worried about the weight?? So sleep cold instead.

are you female by chance? … if so subtract 10F or so from the temp rating

en-ratings take this into account … non-en-rated bags/quilts do not

Cold butt=pad issues to me and if you butt felt cold, your torso was loosing heat too. +1 on adding a thin foam pad to the air mattress, or just starting over with your ground pad. A hot meal will help to start, but doesn't mean much at 3am when the temp has dropped and the radiant heat from the day has dissipated. Wear all the clothes you need to be comfortable– they are doing nothing for you in your pack. A hat and warm socks really help me. You could try heavier bottom layers like Cap4 or Power Stretch if you consistently sleep cold.

You may just be a cold sleeper. I see you live in the Bay Area and it may be that you aren't used to cold temps– simple acclimatization. People really vary with temperature needs. As others said, equipment temp ratings are a relative measure and starting point.

My gut feeling is that the pad was most of the problem. You could add something like a Gossamer Gear Thinlight pad, or maybe borrow something from a friend to test drive. I'm perfectly cozy with a RidgeRest or Z-Rest and normally use a Prolite short pad with a Z-Seat sit pad under my feet and lower legs. I have found that most of my sleeping comfort complaints were more pillow related and I can sleep with minimal cushioning as long as it is warm.

Thanks Jim,

I'll try a hat or the hood of the flash jacket next time. I was wearing wool socks and my feet were OK. I'd be concerned about bringing food into the tent in bear country.

Hi Dale,

Do you think that the 1/8" thin light would be adequate as a starting point. I'm concerned about weight–especially since the large neo air all season weighs 1lb 9oz.

Thanks,

rhz

Some other things to consider:
Did you go to bed wearing the same clothes you had hiked in, or otherwise damp/wet clothes? Dry clothing makes a major difference in heat retention.

I know you said you were in a tent with the rainfly down, but was the tent drafty? Sometimes having the vents open too much causes a draft and in cooler weather that can really take its toll after a few hours. Making sure the quilt is properly tucked around you comes into play here as well.

Along with what everyone else has said these are the only other things i could think of off the top of my head.

Like I said, you might try the Thinlight, which is just a $10 experiment. Indeed, weight is an issue. You have a lot of variables– how cold was it really, humidity, ground temp, wind, etc, etc; are you used to sleeping outdoors in cooler/colder temps and your particular metabolism; was the quilt inadequate, or the the pad, or both?

You need to knock down the variables some way. Do you have another sleeping bag to try, or borrow/rent one? Throwing the $10/2.8oz 1/8" Thinlight pad on top of the NeoAir is the easiest, cheapest way to play with the pad variable that I can think of. You could try the 3/8" pad at $20 and 5.7oz which would have more potential as a stand-alone pad. You could just take more bottom clothing until you figure it out. Playing with gear may risk a bad night!

Here's what I have found with my GoLite Ultra 20, which I find warm to about 30 at best. The biggest problem is that I am a stubborn side sleeper, and I prefer to have my knees bent (yes, like a little baby in the fetal position, you want to make something of it?!). So my butt sticks out to the side, leaving me with two options, 1 – I let the quilt loosely drape over me, thus opening me up to drafts, or 2- I cinch the quilt tight, which compresses the quilt at my butt, making it cold. So while quilts have been championed by side sleepers, I think their temp rating is only accurate for a back/belly sleeper.

"So while quilts have been championed by side sleepers, I think their temp rating is only accurate for a back/belly sleeper."

I'll disagree here David. A side sleeper simply needs a wider quilt. Ask anyone to sleep with their ar$e hanging out into the cold, and they won't be comfortable.

David,

Some years of that GoLite quilt are known to not be rated accurately down to 20.

I am a side sleeper and also sleep in the knees tucked up foetal position (due to a back injury). I have JRB No-Sniveller (only 48 inches wide)and have taken it down to 28 degrees using the following. Kooka bay synth pad (R4-5), thin Suluk46 foam pad, MLD superlight bivy, goosefeet socks, MLD Cocoon top with hood, fleece balaclava, merino leggings. I place a Kooka bay pillow under my knees and this allows me to keep my butt on the pad. I was very comfortable. However, for some people this would be too much and for some too little there is a lot of variance. Also what one individual classes as been warm enough may not be the same as another. Some people consider making it through the night alive a success whilst some want to be completely warm all over for the whole night.

A few thoughts:

1. Using a bivy made a big difference for me.
2. It does take a couple of nights to get your technique for using a quilt just right.
3. I have found that one weak link in the chain can have a negative impact on the overall system even when every other part of the system is working individually perfectly e.g. cold feet, cold head, not warm enough pad, not enough food. I found this out when I wore my hiking socks to bed (as it had worked well the night before and I thought I would be too hot in my goosefeet), but I soon felt cold overall. I switched to my goosefeet and within 10 minutes I was warm all over and had a great night.

If your butt is cold, it could be that your pad is not inflated enough. I'd try that before adding a CFF to your setup. If you're sleeping anywhere near 30degrees, I'd say some sort of down or synthetic hood or balaclava is essential.

I wouldn't be surprised if thats the weak link.

edit: 2x post

Could be dehydration. And I was really surprised to see the effect of blowing up a pad more on R value in the recent testing.

>A friend of mine (a nutrition teacher) claimed that the best evening meal was one that was thermally hot and also spicy hot.

Where did they get their degree?