Going with a lighter sleeping bag/quilt (pushing it’s limits), has it worked out?

[Scott Truong]

It's another sleep system question. I seem to have a lot of problems in this area and it is getting expensive.

Just wanted to do a poll. For all those that have gone with a lighter bag and used insulation to push the limits of their sleep systems, has it worked out for you?

Any regrets? Did you sacrifice comfort? Enjoy your trips less? Is there a better place to cut weight?

Specifically, I can't seem to get that cozy, sleep through the night feeling with a WM Summerlite even at temps above the rating. I seem to be able to get it with a $100, 500 fill down (maybe duck) barrel bag that is rated the same temp., but it weighs 2.6 lbs. I can't figure out why.

I'm not freezing and shivering, but still… it doesn't lend itself to confidence. I sometimes wonder if it's just my expectations of what a WM bag will do. Considering going with the WM Ultralite and accepting the 10 oz penalty.

It's that or use heavier down sweater and purchase down pants.

Sleeping pad is solid, using meshy single wall UL tent. I'm a smaller guy so I'm not crushing my down sweater, well fed, hydrated, not overly taxed.

Thanks in advance.

[M B]

to get the most out of an ultralight down bag, you need to have the face cinched up tightly, just your nose and mouth sticking out. All your heat will escape from the hole otherwise and you will be cold. Especially on summerlite which has no baffle across chest. Some will put whole head inside and plug hole with head/cap, but that can make for wet down. works in very dry conditions though.

WM bags are known to be rated pretty accurately. The EN rating of the summerlite was about 35F I recall reading. Everyone sleeps different though.

I have slept warm enough at 35F in a $8.95 walmart 50f rectangular sleeping bag while wearing long polypro underwear and sweatpants/sweatshirt/socks and knit cap. so insulation works, at least for me.

I think the heavier bags conform to the body and block air migration better. The UL bags will billow out easily because they are so light, hollow like inside, and air will rapidly flow in and out the face hole if it is unplugged.

[Stephen M]

Hi Scott,
I used a Summerlite for 3-4 trips (about 40-50F) and I found the bag too cold and had to put on extra layers, I have since moved backed to a hevaier bag for summer (WM Ultralite.

I do think (like the previous poster) that lightweight bags can billow air out of the bag.

Cheers,

Stephen

[Ryan C]

The Summerlite was my first UL sleeping bag. I have had many of the same issues already voiced here. Sometimes it only works comfortably down to the lower 40's for me. Supplementing with my light synthetic puffy can help but not by very much, mid-30's maybe. I would have to use something like my puffy down parka to be good at or below freezing. The Summerlite does work for me down to the 30's if my metabolism is running fast and warm but is usually not the case.

I have decided to take my WM Apache MF (15deg) for temps below 40 degrees. The Apache was a lifesaver on a recent trip way up north where we had night temps in the 40's, lots of wet weather, and wet clothes. I will gladly carry the extra 13oz for the better bag if stuff looks to be nasty. I probably would have gotten hypothermia if all I had was the Summerlite.

[John Vance]

I had one for a while as well. It just wasn't warm enough for me. I am now a dedicated quilt user and find that I am warmer for less weight.

I have owned the Versalite, Summerlite, Highlite, and Megalight, all great bags but I found the Highlite to my favorite. As warm or slghtly more than the Summerlite at one pound even.

[James holden]

just get an en-rated bag that goes below 30F …

remember that the en-rating of the 35F summerlite is with a R-5 pad … for an "average" male …

im sure WM makes good bags … but at the end of the day all a bag does is insulate you .. and no amount of brand name, or BPL faith will keep you warm if the insulation aint there

en-ratings have leveled the playing field in terms of what bags have measured "warmth" …

carrying too many extra clothes to keep warm at night aint weight efficient … and it leaves u no buffer should temps drop below expected

[Mary D]

Didn't work for me. My first lightweight sleeping bag was a Marmot Hydrogen. It's supposed to be a 32*F bag. However, I started getting cold in it at 40*F and was shivering even with all my insulating clothing on when it got down to 30*F. That was before the EN ratings became popular in the US. More recently I found that 40*F is about right for the women's rating for this bag!

I sold the Hydrogen that winter and bought a Western Mountaineering Ultralight. I've had the Ultralight for 5 years now and have never regretted the purchase. With the draft collar (essential, IMHO) pulled tight, I've been comfortable down to 15*F wearing vapor barrier clothing over a medium weight base layer plus a balaclava. I'm sure the bag would go down to 10*F wearing down clothing (over the vapor barrier so the down won't get damp). It is essential, though, to have a sufficiently warm pad for temps below freezing. My 2 nights at 18*F using a NeoAir under the Ultralight were miserable! When I laid on my back, my top side was sweating while my back was shivering!

Like Eric, I want to be able to sleep when the temperatures are colder than the "average" or the forecast. (Forecasts have a way of changing, and mountains create their own weather.) I therefore don't plan to use my insulating clothing for sleeping unless it's really cold. Yes, it's a little more weight, but a good night's sleep, IMHO, is far more important!

[Paul McLaughlin]

I have a Hydrogen which I like for the summer. I thought I'd try to go lighter on one of my backcountry ski trips – typical temps in the high teens. Wearing insulated jacket and pants (homemade Polarguard) over base layer, I was warm enough – but just. I was surprised to find that the extra clothing did not add as much as I'd hoped. This is clothing that is warm enough for me to sit around in at temps in the low thirties. I don't know if I was having any insulation compression issues, but since I find the Hydrogen fairly roomy – and like it that way – I rather doubt it. I haven't done it again, since I didn't like the fact that I had no room for error – if I got anything wet, or was especially tired one night, or missed a dinner, I would have been cold for sure. I'd do it for an overnight, but not for a week.
My thinking now is back to what I have generally thought – take a bag that is comfortable for you in typical temps when and where you're going with just base layer and maybe a light hat, and then you can wear your clothes if a cold snap hits or other factors cause you to sleep cold one night.

[Raymond Estrella]

"It's another sleep system question. I seem to have a lot of problems in this area and it is getting expensive."

Part of the territory unless you join the South Florida Mountaineers Forum ;-)

"Just wanted to do a poll. For all those that have gone with a lighter bag and used insulation to push the limits of their sleep systems, has it worked out for you?

Any regrets? Did you sacrifice comfort? Enjoy your trips less? Is there a better place to cut weight?"

Just from my perspective. (CA all-season hiking and mountaineering, and MN winter hiking.) I never use the bag’s (quilt’s) insulation to push the limits. Hiking in mountains does that for me. I used to carry a sleeping bag rated well above what I expect to see just to be ready for Nature’s Gotcha’s. Now I carry a quilt to what I expect (and a good pad) and then have a down sweater (or coat/parka depending on location/temps) and base layers to add to it. So many times I am fine with what I brought. But I don’t look at the down sweater as “extra” weight as I like them around camp at night or in the morning anyway.

Specifically, I can't seem to get that cozy, sleep through the night feeling with a WM Summerlite even at temps above the rating. I seem to be able to get it with a $100, 500 fill down (maybe duck) barrel bag that is rated the same temp., but it weighs 2.6 lbs. I can't figure out why.

It is probably the weight that is making you feel that you are all tucked in and secure from what you describe. You may be subconsciously attributing weight/pressure to feeling that you are warm. In your cocoon, if you will. (Wow, Dr Ray. Like Lucy, that will be five cents please.)

I did a bunch of low temp quilt (and half-bag)stuff this past winter. I was worried I was going to be cold and swore that I was. (I was solo and a bit freaked out because of the remoteness and the conditions.) Yet I was sweating from being in too warm of a quilt. (And I quit using alcohol so that was not a factor.) I figured it was just my mind messing with me. (It is the only thing that does since the Ex left…;-)

My suggestion is to take what you plan to see and be prepared to augment. Yeah, you may need a quiver of bags or quilts. It is worth it. Just to say “my quiver” at least. He he he…

Ray

[HkNewman]

One winter trip to the Gila, expected lows in the teens went down to 3 instead due to a cold front. To supplement my EMS Mountainlight "20", I wore fleece pants, fleece pullover and a down vest. My experience was where a body part pressed against the bag due to layers of cold, an instant cold spot occurred waking me up through the night whenever I shifted. I survived but it was pretty uncomfortable.

I don't do that anymore.

[Justin Baker]

I have been using a military surplus poncho liner and sort of pushing the limits with it this summer. It's been fine. If you hike all day, you will just knock out and not really notice the cold as much. Obviously wear every single piece of clothing you have, but don't carry clothing just for sleeping as clothing is heavy compared to a quilt or bag. Defeats the whole purpose.
Space blankets go a long way too. And if you don't mind throwing up a thermal a-frame shelter with natural materials, that does more than you would think. If you use dead, down limbs and leaves, you don't even have to cut anything green and you can just scatter the materials when you are done.

[Raymond Estrella]

“I have been using a military surplus poncho liner and sort of pushing the limits with it this summer. It's been fine.”
In Santa Rosa? I can see that. Beautiful area. I used to live up the coast from you.
“If you hike all day, you will just knock out and not really notice the cold as much.”
Whaaa… You will notice it more as you have burned off all your calories. (Heat) The OP is in Canada.

“Obviously wear every single piece of clothing you have, but don't carry clothing just for sleeping as clothing is heavy compared to a quilt or bag.”

After hiking hard all day? Won’t they be all sweaty and wet? Sounds warm to me.

“Space blankets go a long way too.”

A long way to where? Condensation overload? Seen lots of FAILS, maybe you can share some better results.

“And if you don't mind throwing up a thermal a-frame shelter with natural materials, that does more than you would think. If you use dead, down limbs and leaves, you don't even have to cut anything green and you can just scatter the materials when you are done.”

He is asking about bolstering his sleep system not how to denude a forest or make a huge fire. ;-)

[J C]

Remember that EN ratings come in 3 flavours: comfort, limit and extreme. Nobody quotes the extreme rating because that is literally just a survival thing, as in, you would survive a night at that temperature but not much else.

The "limit" rating has become the standard quoted by manufacturers for sleeping bags but remember, this temperature is supposed to denote the "limit of comfort". So if you are a warm sleeper you will probably be OK at this temperature but if you are a cooler or even an average sleeper then you will probably find this to be a little to very uncomfortable.

Really, the temperature quoted should be the "comfort" rating, or somewhere between comfort and limit, but limit has become too set as the standard to change it now. Personally I add a few degrees (celsius) to the limit rating to find out how "low" a sleeping bag will go for me personally. So for -7C temperatures I would look for a -10C EN rated bag.

[Franco Darioli]

It is probably the weight that is making you feel that you are all tucked in and secure from what you describe
I came to that conclusion too sometime ago.
What I noticed is that some say they are cold yet are sweating inside their bag…
Another common problem is the famous mismatching between the bag and the mat.
If the mat under you does not offer enough insulation you will be cold inside a bag rated higher than the ambient temperature you feel cold in.
I have used the Summerlite with a thin layer down to around freezing as well as down to -5c (23f) with a WM Flight jacket and pants. (somewhat similar to the Ultralite and a thin layer for me)
BTW, I don't have any heating on at night at home , but our min temp is not often below 41f.
Franco

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