Help choosing a pack. Sacrificing volume for comfort and features?

First off a base weight of 20 pounds is a lot, certainly not UL territory. You should shoot for a 10 pound base weight (or less). You can have a three season base weight of 7-8 pounds without losing any comfort (depending on your location).

For a pack, to me not only is your base weight a concern, but also your consumables (though 2-3 nights can give a pretty good estimate), and what kind of sleeping pad you use. If you use closed cell foam, frameless packs make a lot of sense but if you use an inflatable pad (a Neo-Air for example) then lightweight framed packs are probably preferred.

If you are really carrying a 20 pound base weight, then don't get a UL pack, they don't carry 40 pound loads well.

Hi Bradford,

Thanks for your help. I ordered a Stoic LTWT Step Sleeping Bag shown here: http://stoicgear.com/home/equipment/sleeping-pads/ltwt-step-sleeping-pad-regular/

I am not sure what type it's considered.

Right now GearGrams shows my base weight as 10.24 lbs. If I add food and water (just an estimate since I haven't figured out exactly what I need yet), I am at 17 pounds. That's 1L of water and about 7 packs of pre-packaged food. I haven't done the research to figure out how I can pack my own or the whole calories vs weight measurements.

With that said, what pack type/size should I be looking at?

for 2-3 nights, 30-40 liters should be more than ample if your gear is light/low volume, if it's not you might need more

the cottage industry packs typically have more than meet the eyes-usually high end materials, superior workmanship and most often lighter weight than their bigger counterparts

there is a reason both are doing well- not everyone needs the same pack

you need to define exactly what you expect out of a pack. If you ONLY want to use it for 3 days, a certain size will work. If you might also want to use it for 6 days in the future (instead of buying another pack), then it may not. If you are ultralight, or even lightweight, your food volume will be 1/2 or more of your pack, weight aside. Summer use does not require as much volume or carry capacity as winter either. When you think about it, you begin to understand why some people have multiple packs, multiple sleeping bags, multiple tents, etc. All to be carrying only what they need for the conditions they expect.

Using closed cell foam for sleeping pad inside a pack takes up a lot of room, potentially half the pack. Where an inflatable that is rolled up might be the size of a nalgene bottle. You really have to know your particulars to select a pack that will work best. Thats why the normal advice is to buy the pack LAST. However, knowing where you want to be, also helps you to get there. If you want to buy a 2600 cu 10 oz cuben fiber pack, and have it work for 6-8 days food, you will be forced to purchase other gear that will accomplish that.

A good guideline is that if you dont know what you need, then you need a framed pack.

Many 3-4 lbs framed packs will carry better and more comfortably than very lightweight framed packs anyway, and still be able to carry that 35-40 lbs when you have too for a longer trip, or if you need to carry someone elses gear because they twisted an ankle, or such.

The granite gear packs,and the Osprex exos 58, REI flash, etc are very popular. There are easy ways to deal with a pack with excess volume when on shorter trips. dont stuff your sleeping bag, dont put anything in exterior pockets, put sleeping pad inside, use the compression straps, etc

That is a self inflating pad similar to a Thermarest Prolite.

If you are going to be 20-25 pounds total weight I would recommend you look at light framed packs such as the Gossamer Gear Mariposia Plus, Gossamer Gear Gorilla, ULA Ohm, HMG Windrider, or Six Moon Designs Swift (with wing belt and stays)

Just my two cents

If you think of pack volume in terms of cubic inches, then a good rule of thumb is that you need 1000 cubic inches for each 10 pounds of carried weight. That would suggest a 2500 cubic inch volume for a 25-pound pack.

So, if you already have a handle on what your total carried weight will be, the appropriate pack volume is easy to find. On the other hand, if your calculations come out a little wrong, then you have trouble trying to cram everything into the small pack, so common sense dictates that you want to have a tiny bit more volume than you think. Besides, lots of packs have tightening cords to cinch things up.

I used to drag a few guys around on ultralightweight backpack trips of 25 miles per day. After doing one of those, one fellow decided that he needed to use a smaller backpack, so he got one that was at least 20% smaller than what I would have suggested to him. Then, the next trip was a much more laid-back trip so we could take a few more luxuries along. Well, he didn't have the room in his new pack, so he ended up lashing this and that onto the outside of the pack. That wasn't such a good idea when he got trail dirt into his white gas stove burner. I think he lost parts off the stove as well.

If you are buying a pack to carry 50 pounds, then it is rather important to get the necessary features to make it comfortable. However, when you get below 25 pounds, that is less important. It doesn't take much padding for a shoulder strap when you have only 15 pounds.

–B.G.–

>> Right now GearGrams shows my base weight as 10.24 lbs.

Is your list truly complete? I mean not just the obvious things like your pad, bag, etc. but ALL the small stuff like the pillow, bandana, toothbrush, knife, eating utensil, and so on? Clothes that you generally carry as well (i.e. rain gear, sleeping clothes, extra underwear.) If not, you really need a complete list — you'll be amazed how much all the little stuff add up.

Food usually falls in the 1-3 lb per day range. A big guy in winter is going to average more than a small woman in summer.

Before you get too hung up on pack specs, remember that if the "perfect" pack doesn't fit you, it's all moot.

@Martin,

Thank you for your detailed response. Right now I don't think I care if the pack can serve 6 days in the future, unless you can tell me what I am missing. If I am going to be doing mostly (all) 2-3 nights, it seems silly to carry that extra weight/volume that I might never use. Like buying an SUV in case I think I might go off roading, but really just am getting groceries in it.

Here's my gear list. I don't actually own all the products yet but I have much of it. The sleeping bag, tent, cookware, stoves haven't been purchased. The items are just what I think I may want.

@Sumi – Good question. Here's my proposed Gear List:

http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=4046

You're right. It's missing items like toothpaste and soap and bandanna but it's mostly there. I haven't purchased all the items yet and I am really open to any suggestions on changes or barring that, just recommending a pack that would fit all this stuff.

On my upcoming trip, we plan on arriving at a camp in the afternoon, spending the night there (car camping), then hiking the next day, staying overnight at another camp and hiking back the next day. So really 2 days, 2 nights.

some of what I didnt see on list. dont always need everything, depends on season and destination, but your pack should be able to handle 3 season use, if its your only one. Just some of what others might include based on trip. Ounces here and there can add up to lbs.

raingear/wind protection layer
rain hat
bugspray
sunscreen
hydropel
blister kit
bandanas, personal and cooking
gloves
duct tape
pen/paper
puffy insulation layer, synthetic if have down bag
ground cloth
map
compass
stuff saks /dry bags for sleeping bag/clothes
pack liner / cover
camp shoes/ water shoes
camera
cell phone
cozy for rehydrating food
lighter
ziplocks
needle/dental floss
toothbrush/paste
hand sanitizer
soap
coffee
bear bag/rope or canister
backup water treatment for steripen
tent stakes
seam sealing of tent
snack foods?

>>offerings from ULA, Gossamer, MLD, SMD, etc just seem so underwhelming to me compared to something from Osprey, REI<<

That's because packs manufactured from major brands are like products sold by any other well established company. That is, they've been around awhile so they've had time to develop sophisticated time/motion studies, they know their materials backwards & forth, they know every kind of sewing technique, for both form & function, they know what appeals to retail purchasers, and most importantly, many have outsourced production to lower cost countries.

To summarize, when you see a pack @ REI, it's comparable (at least from a consumer impression) in many ways to the level of sophistication/polish you see in finished products from Apple, Honda, etc. There is no denying that when you pull down an Osprey pack from the rack, you're looking at a really, really nice pack.

However, and this is a big however, do backpacks need this level of sophistication? Especially for regular, non-expedition, summer/3-season hiking? And the answer, at least to me, and many other UL backpackers, is: no.

So, at this point you have two alternatives: buy what is essentially a sack from a cottage provider or make your own gear. Because of the lower production volumes and US labor costs, many times the cottage packs are the same price as the higher-volume, yet tricked out, imports. Hence the less than overwhelming impression that cottage packs are 'worth the money'.

Hence, one eventually arrives @ MYOG. And this is where the beauty of MYOG really shines through, because many quickly realize that it just ain't that hard to make a pack, especially a frameless pack (ie one that uses a Ridgerest et al for the internal frame.

But, the conundrum with making your own pack is, where do you start? And the irony is, the best place to start is to copy an Osprey or other major brand, at least in terms of measuring points for length/width, straps, pads, etc. As you observed, frameless packs are mainly big stuff sacks. That is your key – focus on the fundamentals, reinforce the stress points, and away you go.

You can make it as heavy or light as you want. You can add bells & whistles or keep it minimalist. My pack weighs 10 oz, which might be a little heavy for SUL, but I love the waist belt I added and some other little touches that make the bag feel more secure.

"I have been looking carefully at light or ultralight pack offerings from ULA, Gossamer, MLD, SMD, etc and they just seem so underwhelming to me compared to something from Osprey, REI, or other some major brand's catalog."

Appearances can be deceiving, especially where photography and marketing are involved.

"What I mean is the lightweight packs cost the same amount of money but seem like glorified sacks with some shoulder straps."

All packs are, some just have fancier design elements thrown in. Buy a pair of nice shoulder straps and sew them onto a large stuff sack. It's been done. You just might like it.

get what fits you best, has the features you want, costs what you want, and is as light as you want

dont let anyone here or anywhere else tell you what you "should" buy …

packs are like shoes … they have to fit well or youll be sorry afterwards

there is NOTHING wrong with big brand packs … in fact BPL has given some of them their highly recommended rating in the past … its something you can easily try on at yr local store

make yr own decision

Looking at your list, it currently says a base weight of 12.5 lb. As mentioned, I think you're missing some things. For a moderate weather short hike (which would be in line with your 30* bag, pad, clothes choices), I think you'll end up seeing a base weight around 15 lb. Probably the heaviest single item you're missing is rain gear and possibly camp shoes, if you want to take them.

I think you're definitely under-estimating your food. Your list has 3.67 lb for "food" which includes a liter of water. That leaves about 1.5 lb of actual food… that might get you through one day. I've only ordered bulk ingredients from Packit, so I don't know how their servings run but I can tell you both my son (12 years old, 90lb) and I (5'2" 130 lb woman) can EACH eat a 2-serving Mountain House meal for dinner. My suggestion is to order one and try it after a good dayhike. We consistently average 1 pound of packaged food per day (dehydrated dinners, trailmix, jerky, peanut butter, crackers, foil tuna packs, oat meal, coffee/tea/hot chocolate, etc.) and that is at the light end of the scale. Guys probably average double that.

So… if your base weight is 15lb + 8lb for food (4 days x 2 lb/day) + 2lb of water, you're looking at 25lb. I would consider that your minimum. Unless you're really disciplined, lots of "just in case" things have a way of finding their way into a newbie's pack… :)

My gut feeling is that you won't really know what you want in a pack until you get out there and backpack. I'm generally an organized person, so I thought I wanted a pack with lots of pockets. My first two packs were "traditional" ("conventional"?) Gregory and Osprey packs. As I pared down my gear list, I realized that I just didn't need (or want) all those pockets, straps, etc. I also decided that I didn't need to be truly UL either. My base weight hovers around 11 lb and I'm really comfortable in my ULA Circuit.

If you've acquired the items that you have on your gear list already, assemble it all together — I'm going to guess that you'll want a 40-45 liter pack. Go try on some packs and see what you like. I think you'll want to try them weighted with 20, 25 and 30 lb to see how they feel at each of those weights. Try different brands regardless of what you've read in reviews. Start with something like the Osprey Exos 46. You might also consider buying something used for your first pack; it's almost a guarantee that you'll replace it.