Investing in military clothing system?

I considered this stuff once. Once you get beyond level II, everything starts to get significantly heavier than most lightweight gear options. The tradeoff is that it's more durable. I have been thinking about maybe getting level VI stuff for extreme winter though because I'm a little less concerned about weight when temps are below 0F.

Edit: Level V is GoreTex, which I don't prefer in dry cold conditions (around 15F and below). At low temps like that, all of the significant moisture is going to be coming from perspiration, which GoreTex would tend to retain.

The level IV to VII items are high demand issued items and need to be accounted for on every inspection (plus returned upon retirement/discharge). Thus I wouldn't expect them to hit the market anytime soon, but having worn them on my 2010 Afghan tour before retiring (both types of windshirts, new GoreTex, Michelin Man suit, etc..), I'd just go with civilian items unless you can wait.

Now, I did like their new lighter GoreTex jacket (great material and design), but would prefer a non-military color as a civilian.

Seen some recent Army marketed heavy camping gear on Outside online and my local "sporting goods" store, so maybe they will come out with a civilian version of their Level I-VII clothing system. Do not mind foliage green/grey but not ACU camo. A multicam ball cap with sweat band wouldn't be too bad to hide sweat and oil stains though (when hair gets coated in "greasy grimy gopher guts").

Another option is that PCU system made for SOCOM folks, appears to be the same but 3x the price… Does anyone have experience with it?

Also, found a source on the net to buy issue ECWCS items, but they're 2x the exchange price.

Thanks for the insight. So it's not possible to buy level IV-VII at clothing sales?

I was looking at the system mainly for price-quality advantage (level II at $30 at PX vs $100 from Patagonia and color is relatively neutral too). It also looks like the whole system will be coming in that new multi-cam pattern (At Ramstein, I saw a bunch of guys that just came in from Bagram, didn't look too bad) should be pretty palatable then.

On a side note: have they come out with any sort of a new sleeping bag system or are they still using the green-black-goretex combo?

So pick and choose what works. I think the windshirt in the system is a slightly heavier version of the Houdini. I don't know the weight.

The heavier fleece is 300W stuff, much like a North Face Denali. Good for fleece, but heavy and bulky for UL hiking. Put one under a rain shell and you can take on some very cold weather.

Even if available, some PX's (clothing sales, actually) may require additional documentation, like a commander's memo .. Or not, just depends on whether the troops bound for Afghanistan have enough stuff. The whole multicam thing is also tricky. When I retired and turned in my clothing/ equipment, the supply sgt said they were going to ACU-D (= Delta-just add medium brown patches) long term, multicam was temporary for Afghanistan, though troops love multi cam, and Congress is now involved. Even if ACU-D holds as the the new pattern, the hunter crowd will bid up any multicam surplus. Might be best to go aftermarket on any multicam outerwear if you gotta have it now(think the base layers and fleece for those are the old tan layers with widespread availability)

Geez, forty years ago in the Army we could have any color we wanted for field clothing, as long as it was solid OD Green. Didn't even have camo then.

–B.G.–

Bob,

This is still true for us today, but the color is dark blue (not quite navy blue).

Blue? Surely that can't be true.

All U.S. Army troops that I've seen recently are wearing desert camouflage. Either that or else I've gone colorblind.

–B.G.–

Oh, sorry for the confusion. Not Army…

A friend of mine was in the Coast Guard. I think he had to wear pink or white or mauve or something.

–B.G.–

Time for another thread in another forum :)

PS We're just secure enough to wear those colors…

Blue "speckled" multicolor is the for Navy "camo", their on ship/garrison utility uniform, though wouldn't it be hard to spot for a man overboard? I imagine magenta will be the next big camo craze. BTW, our neighboring Navy unit wore Army camo in Afghanistan, not the blue stuff.

Bob, if you are seeing desert camo, that's either the Navy getting rid of their excess desert uniforms or civilian contractors using surplus.

ADD: Honestly wouldn't care to wear camo while hiking, except for the above-mention greasy grimy gopher gut cap.

When I was in the Army (94-03), we always thought, and pretty much knew, that the Army clothing we used were made by the lowest bidder. I read this thread and the windshirt interested me. So I googled it and this is what I found:

http://www.bradleyssurplus.com/product/ecwcs-gen-iii-level-iv-wind-shirt/

Notice it says the order is fulfilled through Patagonia.

Yup, they've come a long way from the light baby p00p brown polypropylene (?) that we all got in early 2000s.

I should post a separate thread, but I have the patrol bag part of the Gregory UM21 BALCS system that they had… please tell me they don't have it anymore, dang main pack was around 14 lbs if I remember correctly.

Worse yet, back during the Vietnam Era, the Army issue stuff was all cotton and wool.

I wonder how we survived.

–B.G.–

Does anyone have any experience with these "pant liners " ?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/US-MILITARY-SURPLUS-M65-PANT-LINERS-SMALL-LONG-NEW-/310285139562
I don't mean that reseller, I mean those pants.
Weight , warmth, compressibility .
Franco

I had the liner out of the same stuff for my field jacket. It was somewhat bulky, felt nasty when wet but it did the job out on the deck when worn under m65 jacket and over a standard wooly-pully.

Thank you for that.
They were described as light in a local forum but maybe not the light I had in mind.
Franco

I remember the liner being pretty light, I just can't remember how light. Last time I wore it was mid 2002 or so when we phased it out in favor of goretex/fleece combo. I think other services did this even earlier.

The pant and field jacket liners are reasonably light, but their biggest selling point is not weight, but rather that they are DIRT CHEAP.

And I have to agree with NOT getting the higher-level ECWCS items. They are the opposite of lightweight, since they are made to be soldier-proof. That said, the base layers and the "waffle" layers are pretty handy.

The old-style pant and jacket liners (c.1970) were OK if you got stuck on an all-night guard duty session, especially if it was November at about 38 degrees North latitude. We didn't have to walk very far, so we never got terribly hot or cold, and they were soft and puffy enough that you could sleep sitting up in a foxhole.

–B.G.–

…When I was in the Army, my field jacket liner was my best friend! And there were many times when I carried 2 poncho liers instead of my sleeping bag because they were lighter and just as warm. I've been out since December 2003 and I still have, and use 2 of my poncho liners.

The best thing about the field jacket liners…the underarm cut outs. Who needs pit zips when you didn't have anything there in the first place.

In regards to the Patagonia filled wind shirt, I ordered one today and after I receive it and use it for a week or so, I will post a review in comparison to my Patagonia Houdini I use all the time. Should be interesting.

Has anyone figured out what Capilene piece level I corresponds to? I'm thinking 2, but not too sure.