Coming Soon: Tarptent StratoSpire

[Pilate de Guerre]

Franco,

I wasn't implying the design was similar, but that a certain something reminded me of each other. As your pictures show the designs are pretty dissimilar, but the association remains in my mind.

Cheers.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"Any plans to add Cuben to your line?"

+1

This has been discussed before and I'm sure the answer is still no, but I'd love to see one of these with a CT2K.08 (0.74oz) fly and a CT5K.18 floor (1.5oz).

[Ryan C]

The StratoSpire looks like the ideal solution for me. I usually use the Moment and still carry poles. This thing gives me a double wall shelter that uses my poles for almost the same weight. Very interesting design but it looks like it may be a pain to setup in nasty weather.

I do not have any Cuben fiber products but would probably jump on a StratoSpire 1 if Henry decided to make a Cuben version.

[Sam Farrington]

Franco,
Here's a "hint".
Notwithstanding the innovations, when you look at the low denier fabric or mesh inners of many such offerings, they all amount inside to the 'pup-tent' shape Lynn Tramper posted concerns about – albeit rotated lengthwise: Not much head room, especially when sitting up from a lying position or moving about; and unsupported, thus more likely to sag, reducing inner space even more; all of which makes it necessary to make the canopy quite a bit larger and therefore heavier, to provide space enough for movement, especially when it will knock condensation from the inside of the outer wall.

We need to get away from saggy, unsupported, flat rooves, characteristic of 'pup tents'. The Rainbow and Moment (and their European predecessors) were steps in the right direction. As were the hoop tents such as Warmlite's and Roger's.

Critical, yes; but true IMO.

[Franco Darioli]

No worries , the Rainbow and the Moment and I expect the Warmlites will still be in production.
oddly what works best for one does not for another.
I will wait to ear comments from customers once they have the shelter set up in front of them.
Franco

[J. Lopes]

I am a less is more kind of guy. I think from a aesthetic point of view the tent(s) look fantastic. If I did not currently own a rainbow, I would definitely consider picking up the single as my two-person tent.

I am wondering if I am alone in thinking the single version could have easily gotten away with less width and only one vestibule (also a weight savings)? Looks to have a rather large footprint with the two vestibules that could prove troublesome in tight spots.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

Jay, yes the "1" could have done away with double doors/vestibules but space benefits aside, the ventilation benefits are enormous. Well worth the weight of a zipper. It is true that the vestibules could have been shallower and the footprint narrower but not with respect to tensioning. You would still need to run a separate guyline or guylines out to the same horizontal distance from the vertical pole for stabilization. The vestibules go out to where they go in order to eliminate any extra guylines if at least one of the two vestibules door halves is still staked (see photos). The shelters will ship with guylines for both sides so that you can tie back one or both sets of doors (see photos) and the guylines can also be run out to the existing stakes or separately for maximum stability. So..yes, it could have been narrower but there would have been a stability penalty to pay and/or you would still need guylines going out that far.

Regarding setup, we'll do a video and show you the way we do it. I do think it's easier than you fear and no more difficult than your Rainbow once you get the hang of it.

Sam, I think calling this design a "pup tent" (standard A-frame) is really missing the finer design details. I absolutely agree that large unsupported panels are a bad thing but this design replaces the A-frame large, flat side panel with two, smaller panels and the side is faceted. Look carefully and you'll see the curved, tensioned seam connecting the panels and note that the 2-piece side is not flat. In addition, there are curved seams at all other junctions and they all contribute to internal fabric tensioning, something sorely lacking from European arch poles tents you reference such as the Atko and Laser. And you're way off regarding headroom concerns. Take a look again at the diagrams further up this thread. The stretched/diagonal ridgeline and steeper end walls give you much more headroom in this design than any "pup tent."

-H

[Bob Bankhead]

Henry –

Are you bringing these prototypes to PCT Days in Cascade Lock, OR Sept 2 – 4 and/or to the ALDHA-West Gathering at Lake Wenatchee, WA Sept 23 – 25? Those would be perfect chances for folks to see them, and the rest of your line.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

I can't make PCT Days this year. I think the ALDHA meeting date is doable but need to clear it with my boss…

Edit: Boss says "ok". I'll be there.

[Miguel Arboleda]

I see no reason for people to get defensive about how others perceive the shelter. As a designer I can easily see the similarities between this shelter and such shelters as the Haven, the One, the Mountain Equipment AR Ultralight 2, and even the Hilleberg Rajd. It's a beautiful design and solves some of the problems of the other shelters, but really all that has been done is to offset the support poles over to the sides a bit (thus solving the "canted pole" dilemma) and two support V-poles set to prop up two corners. (not sure why the four V-pole support system like on the Scarp wasn't employed, since this actually has a lot of the design elements of the Scarp. It does solve the problem of the flat fly, however, though I think a seam along the side panel ridge lines would have given the fly a lot more strength in winds and prevent deflection… Here you can see what a difference the seams make) I'm not saying that coming up with this design is easy! And that's the thing, coming up with simplicity is one of the hardest things a designer has to face.

I'm looking hard at this shelter, though I have to find justification over my the One. Offering it in cuben would be a huge incentive for me. A solid inner would also be a real plus for me, especially where I walk and camp. The two-door design makes it a great shelter for hot climates.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

I did not intend to come off as defensive, apologies if taken that way. I was intending to point out misinterpretation/misinformation.

Re: offsetting all 4 corners, there would be some additional usable floor space to be gained as the cost of decreasing slopes and at some loss to the faceted aformentioned structure, not to mention increased cost, weight, and complexity. Everything is a tradeoff as you know. There is no perfect tent that satisfies all criteria.

Not sure I understand your question/suggestion about "a seam along the side panel ridge lines"; where would that go?

Re: other shelters and seams, the only one I see with faceted sides is the Shangrila–thanks for the video link.

A solid inner for the StratoSpire is easy. We need to get things into production and then I'll take a look at inner styles.

[Sam Farrington]

Henry,
Possibly you missed my point. The reference to pup-tent shape was not about the outer tent; but was made with reference to the net inner shown in the first pic in Franco's post of 8/11/11. No matter how groovy the outer canopy shape may be, the inner tent shape determines the space for the occupant.

Looking at Franco's photo of the net inner, please note the flat, angled walls above the head and foot ends. That is what I was referring to with the expression, 'pup-tent shape.'

Looking at the pix on the sneak peek link to your site more carefully, it appears that the inner net at two corners may be linked inside to the apexes of the A-shaped supports. That was not shown in Franco's photo, as it was of the net inner only.

Even if that is the case, it remains a flat, unsupported roof line. This is the case, for example, with the Sea to Summit Specialist tents and the other designs that have all four corners raised (as pup tents often have). Despite that, the flat rooves limit headroom, even if their corners are raised off the ground. That is a characteristic of pup-tent shapes, and may be one reason why the dome and hoop shapes have become so popular, even with the increased pole weight. As I mentioned, the whole canopy can be magnified to reduce this problem; but the added fabric adds more weight.

Tents with these flat, unsupported rooves seem to be the current favorite for ultra-light use and manufacture, and I accept that. I just have different tastes, in terms of room to move about inside and elimination of and/or protection from sagging and condensation. Maybe I missed something while going through the photos; but I don't think so, and may just have to disagree in this case. In any event, it is good of you to contribute to these forums, and in such detail. Thank you.

BTW, had hoped you might make a larger version of the Moment at some point. With just two sturdy stakes, the tensioning of the A-shaped supports at both ends is very helpful in keeping the silnylon taut. A slightly larger one would be awesome. You could call it the "Moment-2-Moment." And yes, I would replace the poles with carbon ones MYOG, not to mention making the struts easily removable.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

I'll make this my last post until we start shipping but I'll just agree with you that we "may just have to disagree in this case." First of all, looking at the interior set up standalone, with multiple pads for effect and with the raised corners tensioned downward, is not a good way to evaluate the interior tensioning. In addition, I really don't understand your point about an unsupported roof line. The inner is elastically tensioned at the two apex points, each of the 4 low corners, and both raised corners. The ridgeline is rotated with respect to the floor geometry so there's just more "up there" compared to any shelter with the ridgeline orthogonal to the floor geometry. The interior is stretched tight inside and reasonably hugs the underside of the fly geometry. Not sure what else anyone would expect. I can easily sit up and lie down (at 5'11") without touching mesh, let alone touching the higher fly. I'm quite sure people quite a bit taller than me will have the same experience. With regard to sag potential, each of the connection points use elastic and overall tensioning for both the fly and attached interior is pretty easily adjusted from inside just by boosting the (adjustable) trekking pole height as needed. I have attached a couple of photos showing the raised end and apex. The low end not shown is tensioned exactly the same as the lower corner of the raised end.

I think what you're really trying to say is that isn't an arch pole geometry and, yes, I completely agree. Arch pole geometries are great at maximizing usable volume and I'm a huge fan. The main reason I have never done a single pole pyramid style shelter is that such geometries are bad at maximizing usable volume. I have boxes of failed attempts at modified pyramids, abandoned due to frustrations with poles in the middle, and most especially usable volume. This one comes much, much closer to what it feels like in a Rainbow or other arch pole structure and I'm very satisfied with it. I think others will be as well but there is certainly no perfect shelter for all tastes and criteria.

Re: larger Moment, it's on my list but I need to figure out a light, user friendly way to deal with the necessarily longer end struts.

-H

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Henry,

As a Moment owner I can say that the most obvious solution to the "larger Moment" CF end strut is, as I'm sure you know, to make the struts removable.

Yes, this means a longer set-up time but the user has the option of leaving them in if that is a problem. And, if the user(s) have a pretty good idea that there will be bad weather in the late afternoon they can always leave the struts in and strap the tent outside their pack if necesary. This may be a cue to place some light nylon webbing strips on the stuff sack for easier, more secure strapping to the pack.

Also, being a "Moment for Two" (sounds like a Cialis commercial :) there will be two people to set up the tent and replace struts, thus decreasing "erection time". (Sorry but I just couldn't let that one pass.)

BTW, Making the Scarp 2 into a single wall tent may just be the simplest way to a "larger Moment".

[Sam Farrington]

Henry,
Thanks for all the additional info. It markedly improves my feeling about this tent.

FWIW to fans for a larger Moment: The remodel of my Scarp uses bungee cord to keep the struts in place in their shortened sleeves. The cord is attached at one end to a loop in the shortened grosgrain ribbon at the fabric edge, and to a pole end receptor at the other end. The struts slip easily into the sleeves, and the elastic connected receptors secure them in position. There is a cord between to two receptors to maintain the distance (A-shape) between them at the bottom ends of the struts. Unfortunately, this system would not work if the tent walls came all the way to the ground. A couple inches are required for the bungee cord to function.

I've found that external alloy ferrules are the best way to connect carbon pole (or strut) sections, but they might interfere with sliding the strut into a fairly snug grosgrain sleeve. Stronger and thicker pultruded .240" carbon tube is readily available to use for internal ferrules, but the fit is loose with outer carbon shafts of that size, including the ones that came with the Scarp. This would be a serious problem, as carbon tube joined by ferrules are much more likely to break when the fit is loose, because the force when the shaft is stressed is focused over a much smaller area. More snugly fitting materials would need to be procured. The Easton FX alloy ferrules are snug, but weight is increased by about 50% over the lighter carbon tube such as that in the Scarp struts. Easton has newer and lighter carbon poles out, but last I checked, they are not available to the general public. They would be ideal for a two section strut, however, as the elastic connector is a short piece between the tube ends, and does not need to be extended inside a longer pole in order to function effectively.

[Franco Darioli]

Well I had to look up "flat rooves" on Google to figure out what Samuel meant.
What he means is in effect the opposite, pitched roofs, that is : non arched roofs.
This is a flat roof :

But thanks , Samuel, for explaining that your "facts" are based on your own personal dislike of the mid type structure and that you judged the tent by the bug net (yes the mesh inner is a bug net NOT a tent…) .
I am pretty confident that most bug nets will fail your visual test too, so might as well get busy and post that where appropriate.

Franco
Added for clarification.
The above picture is from the Google search for "flat roof tent"
I used that because it isn't from a known manufacturer.

[Sam Farrington]

Franco,
A mite snarky, mate? Being from Oz, you should be familiar with the WE bug dome, here as modified:

Cheers,
Sam

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The BPL Outdoor Retailer Market Article mentions this shelter and says the MSRP will be LESS than the Scarp. The Scrap 2 is $325, so perhaps the StratoSpire will cost $299.

There's some neat 2-3 person tents announced for next year (this tent, Easton Kilo 3p etc) so I'll probably wind up buying one of them. I really like everything about this tent except I'm not a silnylon fan. I prefer PU coated nylons or cuben.

[Matthew Perry]

Franco,
I thought Sam's comments, while contradictory to yous and Henry's, quite polite, well thought and professional. He did nothing to elicit the childish response you followed up with. By answering the way you did, you just made yourself and your associate (Henry) look bad. VERY poor manners.The StratoSpire is a hard tent to figure out (an odd-angled pup-tent), so cut people some slack.

Pup-(Tarp?)tent:

—-M

[Bob Bankhead]

Let's all just wait for Henry's video. That will mark "paid" to a lot of these questions and opinions.

Until then, let's all have some warm milk and cookies, and lie down on our blankies for a refreshing afternoon nap.

No one wants to see a "does not play well with others" notation on their report card.

[Bob Bankhead]

for the Stratospire 1 has appeared on the tarptent website. There is no audio track.

http://tarptent.com/stratospire1.html#videos

Unfortunately, it can not be expanded to full screen size which would make it much easier to see. Maybe Henry can fix that for us.

[Franco Darioli]

Works for me.
(two arrows symbol bottom right corner)
Franco

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

It isn't intended as the full set up video but rather as a quick proof of 2-minute pitch. We'll do a much better, larger video with full audio later this Fall.

-H

[Bob Bankhead]

Franco:

I'm aware of the arrows. When I click there, a horizontal black bar appears across the center of the video saying "UNDEFINED".

Running Internet Explorer 9 on 64 bit Win7

Either way, the video is enlightening. Nice job, Henry (as usual).

[Christopher Yi]

Got to look at the tent in the flesh over a week ago when I was picking up my Moment at Tarptent. It's definitely a head scratcher even in person. If the Moment doesn't work out for me, I think I know what my next tent is.

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