Ultralight sleeping bag

[Stuart Bilby]

I reviewed the Pod30 and I really like it. I have used lots of top bags and this is my favourite. It is well designed without cold spots and good for me (warm sleeper) at its temperature rating with light clothing.

[Donald Johnston]

I think the concept is too foreign to most folks. Especially if just starting out. Going backpacking – need a sleeping bag right? Once one has experiance and perhaps has slept with a traditional sleeping bag draped over you like a quilt you my become more open to the idea of a quilt. Or maybe you meet someone who uses a quilt. If one tries a well designed quilt I don’t think many go back to a traditional bag. Just as with a traditional sleeping bag some are designed better than others to handle a wide variety of conditions. I’m sticking with my quilt. This will be my 4th year.

[Donald Johnston]

“I’ve decided that the nunatak ghost is probably the right option for me. I’m just wondering why there isn’t more talk of quilts and top down bags?”

Nunatak is a custom maker where it helps to be an educated buyer. Weight can be a clue on what needs to be done. A quilt should only be a little lighter than a sleeping bag of the same rating. If a top quality 20º bag from a top maker like WM bag is 2 lbs in .85 fabric a similar rated quilt in .85 fabric should only be lighter by about the weight of the hood it doesn’t have. What ever model Nunatak you get, get overfill if you want to be comfortable at the rated temperature. The baffle heights are optomized for more than the minimum fill. Also notice the same quilt is marketed with three different fabric weights of shell and the same down fill. With the heavier shell fabrics you need more down to get the same loft as with the lighter fabric weights.
You can buy it as is and try it then send it back for more fill later If you want to increase the warmth.

[Eric Gray]

Last Sept. 2004 there was a light snow storm in the Sierras and at night the temperature dropped to 5F. My water bottle froze solid inside my tent! I was, however, warm enough to sleep all night in a Rock Wren which is rated to 35F and weighs 27oz. I did wear light long underwear. I like this bag because you can wear it like a jacket at night (arm holes and open bottom to pull up) and save weight by not bringing a jacket along.

[Craig Shelley]

Does anyone have experience with the Marmot Atom? This is suppose to be a one pound bag with a 40F rating.

[Patrick Baker]

http://forums.backpacker.com/thread.jspa?threadID=61438

[William Safranek]

I’m suprised I haven’t heard much about the Rab QT. When I’ve used it with a bivy I’ve been very comfortable with temperatures in the sub freezing. You can’t seem to beat it for the price. I’ve tried my custom Nunatak Ghost Blanket made for two with less success when used for two. Sometimes it is ok for one.

[David Spellman]

I’m a little surprised that there hasn’t been a mention of quilts, either, especially since BPL has been involved in their design and marketing for years. For the temps above freezing (32F, 0C) that have been talked about, a quilt is a no-brainer, and probably works for you in the widest range of temperatures. They’re far more versatile than most mummy bags, and you can extend their bottom range with clothing far more easily, or even use them to extend the range of a mummy bag, while carrying very little weight for the amount of warmth they offer.

There are a wide variety of options here, including already-built down quilts like the Arc Alpinist series from Nunatak and those from JacksRBetter (www.jacksrbetter.com). And then there’s the down quilt kit from http://www.thru-hiker.com. My Arc Alpinist X (now simply a quantum-shelled option at Nunatak) in LONG was around 20 ounces, but provides a LOT more warmth than something like the Marmot Pounder, which seems more like a 50 degree bag to me <g>.

There are also synthetic alternatives, and quilts with at least a couple of insulation alternatives are available from Fanatic Fringe (www.fanaticfringe.com). Ray Jardine, who really popularized quilts in Beyond Backpacking, has synthetic quilt kits available on his website (www.rayjardine.com). My first quilt was a synthetic quilt built to his instructions in the book, and it was simple to sew up and was my main sleeping “bag” for several years (the arc alpinist has relegated it to shelf status for the time being). I think that Backpackinglight.com may be offering synthetic insulation quilts in the near future — Ryan’s hinted at their arrival for months.

It’s also worth noting that some design options have done much to make a simple quilt more appealing. One, of course, is the addition of a foot pocket. Another is the use of straps and snaps to snug the quilt around either the pad and the user or around the user himself, for increased warmth and draft protection in colder weather. Yet another is the use of draft flaps (see the Jardine site) which add little weight, but do much to get rid of the occasional cool “wakeup call.” And finally, the addition of an extremely lightweight but breathable bivy not only subs for a ground cloth, but offers protection from spray and condensation while eliminating drafts. Makes a perfect adjunct for a quilt used under a tarp.

[Andrew Browne]

Does anyone have experience with the EXPED range of waterproof, down filled sleeping bags. They claim to be a sleeping bag and bivy in one parcel. I’m looking at the Ibis rated down to 0 degress C weighing 1.3kg (2.86lbs) as an alternative to carring a sleeping bag and a bivy.

[Kevin Lane]

Where can this be purchased?

[Jason Shaffer]

http://www.rab.uk.com/products_sleeping.html

If you’re not familiar with them, Rab has a lot of good products.
For retailers, see
http://www.rab.uk.com/stockists.html

Others here can recommend specific retailers.

[Frank P.]

Try the EMS Mountain Light 20. I’m not sure if it qualifies as UL (reg = 2lb, lng = 2lb. 2 oz.), but it really gives a lot of bang for the buck. I just picked one up last week, and I’ve already used it on a cool (40s), rainy night and loved it. It’s rated to 20 degrees F, contains 725 fill down, a Pertex Microlight shell – all for 199.00

[Wayne Heckman]

Has anyone had problems with cold spots with WM Caribou/Highlite, that uses box stitch construction? Many years ago I had a down sewthru bag that was cold given the amount of loft it had, and was wondering if WM has solved this problem. Thanks.

[Roger Gorham]

The WM Caribou has a combination of sewn-through and baffled construction. The east/west stiches across the body are sewn through. The north/south stitches are baffled or sewn through depending on location. The breadth of the bag is three panels wide, so there are four sets of north/south stitches: one at the zipper, two in the center, and one on the far side. The two in the center are baffled, the two on the far right and left are sewn through. Consequently you get the baffling on the top but not on the sides.

Last night was my first night out in the WM Caribou. Low temps in the early morning were in the 38*F-40*F range. I didn’t notice any cold spots so their formula works. However, I did start to lose some toastiness in general and became somewhat cool as the temperature began to hit the limits of the bag. However, I was only wearing a long sleeved Ibex Merino shirt and Smartwool boxers and no socks. I added a thin fleece hat and WM Flight Vest and went back to being toasty.

[David Lewis]

Does anyone have any experience with this bag? If the temp. rating is accurate, it would seem to be a pretty impressive bag. 30F/-1C rating weighing 18 ounces for the regular. And it is not a top bag. The Rab QT and GG Sleeplight have about the same temp. rating and weigh 14 oz. and 16 oz. respectively… but they are top bags. Their website does not specify the baffle height, but the fill is 10 ounces of 800 down. It also has a half zip and a footbox vent and pretty generous girth at 62″/42″. And the price is right!!!

Seems too good to be true. Then again, the temp. rating may be misleading. And if one accepts that WM bags have conservative ratings, this Sierra Bag may be about as warm as a HighLite which is a tad lighter and has 8 oz. of 850 down.

[Richard Nelridge]

The Sierra Designs Wicked Fast appears to be a top or top-like bag (no insulation or moveable insulation from underneath), and lacks a hood for the weight and price.

The Rab Top bag will have to be ordered from a store in Europe since there are no Rab sleeping bag distributors in the US.

Again, look at Feathered Friends Vireo (FF) a zipperless extended half bag:

http://www.featheredfriends.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productId=78&CatId=1&ProductName=Vireo

The Vireo has an average weight of 17 oz with 8.8 oz of down (in the 62″ lenghth it is 16 oz with 8.1 oz of down). It is available in Pertex Quantum for $210 without a discount. It is available in 3 lengths, for a 15% discount (for both the Vireo and jacket) if purchased with a FF jacket. The Volant hood is an attachable/removable option. The sleeping bag is available in 750+ down, upgrade to 800+ down for $8.00, and is available with overfill of 800 + down at $8.00 per ounce. The bag is designed to accept a light high loft vest or jacket inside or a heavier jacket outside.

The baffles of the Vireo sleeping bag are continuous and allow you to move the down from below to top and vice versa. Down loft for the stripped bag varies from 3″ at the top to 5″ at the bottom. My Vireo with 800+ down upgrade with 2 oz of overfill (total about 10.1 oz 800+ down) has loft varying from 4″ at the top to 7″ in the footbox.

The Vireo is only rated at 45 degree F in the stripped form due to the distribtion of the down (3″ at the top). As mentioned it is designed to be used with a jacket or a vest which will bring the lower temperature range down significantly.

Also, check the discussion threads for the Vireo that I sent to you yesterday.

Rich

[David Lewis]

Thanks Richard… I did read all the posts in the threads you pointed me too. Thanks very much for that.

However, I’m afraid I don’t really understand your reasoning in the comparison above. The Vireo is a great deal, for sure, but it’s actually about the same weight as the Wicked Fast (+/- 1 oz. depending on length). Also, the Wicked Fast is apparently warmer (rated at 30F), has a half-zip and a footbox vent, has a smidgen more fill weight, and is a fair bit roomier below the shoulders (62″/59″/42″).

As for a hood, I don’t really like hoods. So that’s no loss.

As for price, although the Wicked Fast is more expensive than the Vireo… it’s cheaper than most other bags in the same class.

I don’t mean to argue… I’m just saying that it does SEEM like an impressive bag from the specs.

[David Lewis]

Just to clarify Richard… I do think the Vireo layering idea is pretty interesting… and I do appreciate your comments and info. And I know that temp. ratings are kind of hard to go by with any bag. But that Sierra bag does LOOK like an interesting option.

[Richard Nelridge]

David,

The comments that Brian made are due to the narrowing of the bag from the waist down but as Brian points out in the following: “One issue I have with the bag is the very slim fit around my hips. The foot box is plenty roomy, as is the top of the bag, but I definitely feel the bag around my hips and am a little afraid I am compressing some of the down in that area. But, I didn’t feel any cold spots and it may just be me adjusting to the slimmer fit from my ’92 EMS or mil-issue bags. BTW, I’m not a small person at 6’2 200# w/ large legs/quads”.

Brian was adjusting to the different cut of the Vireo.

You can read about 7 lightweight bags including the Nunatak Arc Ghost, Western Mountaineering Highlite, Sierra Designs Wicked Light, Montbell #7, Marmot Pounder, Mountain Hardware Phantom 45D, and the FF Vireo in the Rock and Ice Article:

http://www.rockandice.com/gear/141%20Field%20Tested.pdf

You can also read a short blurb in Backpacker Magazine about the Feathered Friends Vireo at:

http://search.rodale.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi?action=View&VdkVgwKey=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebackpacker%2Ecom%2Farticle%2F1%2C2646%2C6486%2C00%2Ehtml%3F&DocOffset=3&DocsFound=4&QueryZip=vireo&Collection=backpacker&ViewTemplate=docview%2Ehts&SearchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch%2Erodale%2Ecom%2Fsearch97cgi%2Fs97%5Fcgi%3Faction%3DSearch%26QueryZip%3Dvireo%26ResultTemplate%3DBPResults%252Ehts%26QueryText%3Dvireo%26Collection%3Dbackpacker%26ViewTemplate%3Ddocview%252Ehts%26ResultStart%3D1%26ResultCount%3D10&#038;

You can read about the Nunatak Akula, comparisons with and comments about the FF Vireo in Backpacker Magazine at:

http://search.rodale.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi?action=View&VdkVgwKey=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebackpacker%2Ecom%2Farticle%2F1%2C2646%2C6470%2C00%2Ehtml%3F&DocOffset=2&DocsFound=4&QueryZip=vireo&Collection=backpacker&ViewTemplate=docview%2Ehts&SearchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch%2Erodale%2Ecom%2Fsearch97cgi%2Fs97%5Fcgi%3Faction%3DSearch%26QueryZip%3Dvireo%26ResultTemplate%3DBPResults%252Ehts%26QueryText%3Dvireo%26Collection%3Dbackpacker%26ViewTemplate%3Ddocview%252Ehts%26ResultStart%3D1%26ResultCount%3D10&#038;

[David Lewis]

Thanks for the links Richard :) Esp. the PDF!

[David Lewis]

Ok… I’ve been doing more research and I just clued in that the SD Wicked Fast is a top bag. Opps. I knew those numbers just didn’t add up. There is absolutely no indication of this on their website though. As a top bag, 18 oz. sounds right. I was thinking it was a regular bag. I don’t think a top bag / quilt would work with my sleeping style… I change positions (front to back) a lot. For sure I would end up in the middle of the night sleeping on my stomach with the down half under me and my back half frozen :P

p.s. Richard… check out tinyurl.com. I use it a lot for long URL’s. Some people don’t like to click on them tho’ ’cause they’re not sure where they will go.

[Richard Nelridge]

David,

Thanks for the heads up on the urls. They posted something on the site for html on this site for having a direct link to something, but I must be doing something wrong.

The tinyurl should at least make some of those outlandish listings more livable.

Rich

[nathan matthews]

i’m wondering what the advantage of a top bag, with a sewn-in floor, is over an arc-style quilt? the quilt certainly seems more versatile, but i guess you might roll out from under it?

assuming that quilts are generally superior, what do folks think about cutting the floor out of a top bag and making it into a quilt? in particular, i’m thinking about the SD Wicked Fast.

[John S.]

Richard, the RAB QTop bag can be bought in the USA from

http://www.mandatorygear.com/SleepRabbags2.html

[Richard Nelridge]

I stand corrected. Unless mistaken Mandatory Gear must be importing the Rab Q Top bags themselves. Having had numerous e-mails (and trying to obtain Rab gear) with the parent company, Equipuk, they are still considering launching the Rab line of products in the US. Equipuk is presently selling their other brand of products in the US already.

Rich

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