What about truly ultralight hammocks?

True SUL hammock. DIY hammock and many space blankets. I ask my friend to tell more about it (later).

All space blanket hammock photos https://picasaweb.google.com/timo.anttalainen/IsoVasikkasaariTalvi2010#

"I don't like this part of hammock marketing; it all seems patched together for the most part".

the HH (my opinion and shared by many) system is designed to be "all inclusive" yet it doesnt actually work too well for most situations. the clark is even worse at designing an answer to insulation issues. fill some pockets with "extra" stuff? so im carrying around enough spare clothing and junk to fill these pockets, it surely doesnt lend itself to a light pack!

your dream system looks great. just for mentioning my quilt on a public forum, you are entitled to a free ounce of down, on the house. remind me of this fact when you place your order.

"just for mentioning my quilt on a public forum, you are entitled to a free ounce of down, on the house. remind me of this fact when you place your order."

So how many times for a free quilt? {GRIN}

"the HH (my opinion and shared by many) system is designed to be "all inclusive" yet it doesnt actually work too well for most situations. the clark is even worse at designing an answer to insulation issues. fill some pockets with "extra" stuff? so im carrying around enough spare clothing and junk to fill these pockets, it surely doesnt lend itself to a light pack!"

I think the HH SuperShelter is an attempt to make the hammock usable at moderate temperatures. Talking about the Clark, I think it is a better integration of parts, particularly the end insulation covers that Velcro in place. Clark says that their pocket system will work to 32F with no other insulation, just the empty pockets creating dead air space– I'm suspect. I wonder what mylar balloons would do? Or the Flex Air UL inflatable pillows? Some people have made their own pads to supplement the Clark system. It certainly isn't light, but the rest of the Clark system isn't either. It can be adapted using UL materials and principles.

I could see a light under cover a la Clark, with pillow pockets. It wouldn't need much strength, just some wind resistance and DWR, so it could be very light stuff. In the best UL tradition the pockets could be stuffed with spare clothing and gear, or down or polyfil. I am finding very good results using space blankets between the hammock and an under cover for moderate temperatures.

I made a space blanket and polyfill pad that worked too. Light nylon and polyfill sandwiches have their merit when used with an under cover and would be much more durable and compressible than the space blanket approach. They can certainly be used along with a space blanket as reflector and vapor battier and very simple to construct. I see that Seattle Fabrics offers pre-quilted polyester bats with taffeta sewn to one side (see http://www.seattlefabrics.com/insulations.html). It would be so quick to put two layers together for an insulated pad, or with a little more design, a more usual under quilt. I am very interested in seeing how Insultex performs.

You can make an under cover by just end gathering and whipping the ends of a long piece of cloth and tying that under your hammock. I tried it with spinnaker cloth and it worked just fine. A cheap lightweight hammock can be re-purposed the same way, placing the suspension with shock cord and toggles.

Interesting! A little Insultex in that mix would help, wrapped with a breathable nylon sheet or a cocoon. I could see using the space blankets like that in an emergency, but it seems it would get wet and cold. I guess the first layer is more vapor barrier and the multiple layers act as insulation? I've played around with multiple layers of space blanket for under quilts. I think it has some merit at moderate temperatures.

I thought about using an AMK SOL Emergency Bivy as a vapor barrier for a hammock (see http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/product.php?product=144&catname=Shelter&prodname=SOL%20Emergency%20Bivvy).

Here's a good jumping off point for contemplating the ultralight hammock set:
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20614

The adventure racer models and possibly the Scout are lighter than the Hyperlite. I got an Extreme Racer Lite (I think that's the model–it's the middle weight of three adventure racing models that I know of) from the BPL take-as-is sale. I believe it weighs 18 or 19 oz? And that's with bugnet, not sure about fly. It's stuffed into snakeskins right now (would like to make a cuben version of those) or I'd toss it on the scale.

I'm pretty new to hammocking, but here's my current setup (now less bulky and a couple ounces lighter thanks to a post by Te-Wa on HammockForums recently):

Warbonnet Traveler Single 1.1
Dynaglide whoopies (trimmed a little)
Pair of 5 1/2 ft amsteel tree straps (put sticks in between amsteel and tree to protect bark)
Wood toggles (tiny – 1.5 grams for the pair)
Total: about 8 oz exactly in a mesh stuff sack

I use a headnet for bug protection (1.1 oz). If I'm not taking my dog along or good weather is expected, I'll use a GoLite poncho tarp in an asym-pitch (about 11 oz with 6 guylines, 4 stakes, and 2 mini biners).

For under insulation, I've been comfortable down to 60 F just sleeping on my Nanopuff jacket. That's the lowest I've gone so far, but I just purchased a 3/4 Baby Orca IX UQ from treetotrailgear.com. I haven't received it yet, but it supposedly weighs 8.5 oz and is good down to 40 for most users, 30 for some. We'll see how it works out but I have high hopes.

Anyway, my setup is good for users 200 lbs and under and for temps about 35 or higher. So hammock + suspension + bug net + weather protection + bottom insulation = 28.6 oz. I could drop 1.5 oz by going with the Grand Trunk Nano 7.

I think the spartan 20.8 oz for the Gatewood Cape is a little low (it assumes the Gatewood Cape weighs 4 oz instead of 11 oz). Your total should be 27.8 oz. You could go more spartan though – GG pads at 6 oz and skip ground sheet, bringing you down to 21.3 oz.

It's certainly possible to go UL or even SUL with a hammock. I've read of people doing it before. I think the main difference is I would never voluntarily spend a night on my GG foam pads at home, but I've spent the last few nights in my hammock!

Good for you on the asym pitch with the poncho– that didn't occur to me. Is it enough with wind and rain? Why 6 guylines and 4 stakes?

BTW, I reduced the effective weight of the Gatewood to 4oz— 11oz, minus what a silylon poncho weighs, ~7oz. It's all academic anyway.There's no way I would go out without rain gear, nor shelter. I wouldn't go without a ground sheet either– not in the Cascades.

With the poncho tarp, I don't use a ridgeline, so 2 guylines are used to tie off to trees. The other 4 guylines are used to stake to the ground – 2 on the corners like a normal asymmetric pitch and then 2 more guylines attached to the tie outs on the long side of the poncho.

I find that tying out the poncho on the sides gives a much tighter pitch and way more coverage. If you hang the hammock close to the tarp, you can stay pretty well protected. Plus with poncho tarps, I always bring some lightweight emergency poncho, so I think you could hang that at one end of the hammock and your pack at the other end to help with wind blown rain.

Originally, I planned to use my poncho tarp in conjunction with a WB asym-diamond tarp. I thought that by pitching the two together in opposite assymetric styles would provide great coverage for minimal weight. And it would have provided enough protection for me, just not for my pup who sleeps under/beside my hammock (thus my ordering of a Mamajamba tarp).

I'm still trying to think of a way I could incorporate my poncho tarp into my shelter because it just feels silly to not use it when I'm already carrying it. If I could sew, I'd love to make a tarp that covers one side of my hammock, wraps over my ridgeline, and then continues down for about 8 inches or a foot where it overlaps or somehow connects to my poncho tarp (which is pitched to cover to the other half of my hammock). That way I could have my huge tarp, but half its weight would be my raingear! I've CAD'd this idea up in a drafting program, but I'm running Linux right now and can't open the files. I can post pictures later if any one is interested.

You can use a poncho for a weather shield on your hammock, adding wind and rain protection and a "free" ~10F boost.

The photo shows a Hennessy Expedition sans tarp with a 104"x60" silnylon poncho covering the bottom. It has shock cords in all the edge hem/channels. You can see the orange side of the space blankets through the translucent fabric– I was experimenting with them as insulation.

I noticed the HH Adventure Racer (no longer made), the Nano-7 and the Traveler mentioned in posts above. I have an Adventure Racer that has been modified with whoopie slings and a full length side zipper. It weighs 10.7 oz. My tree hugger straps which I use with all my hammocks weigh 2.3 oz. My Nano-7 with whoopie slings weighs 6.2 oz and my Traveler with whoopie slings weighs 7.3 oz. I use a 10×8.5 cuben tarp that with guy lines weighs 8.2 oz. I have a removable bug net for the Nano-7 and the Traveler that weighs 2.7 oz. Any combination above brings me to around 16-18 oz. Depending on the season I have different insulation. My lightest is and IX under quilt at 8.5 oz a Leighlo summer underquilt at 9 oz. I spent the night on Roan Mountain this January with a low of 1.8º in the Traveler with the IX UQ and a JRB No Sniveler UQ (21 oz). I had a Warbonnet Black Mamba TQ. I had my cuben tarp pitched in tent mode and slept toasty but I was cold during the day. My clothing system was not nearly as effective as my sleeping system.

Nice hammocks!

How do you like the IX underquilt? I have an insert on order to use with my poncho under cover. IX looks like a good UL summer option.

I did some experimenting yesterday and found surprising results using two space blankets, with one flat on the undercover and another on top, crumpled and rolled into the bottom blanket down the side. I'm going to try similar combinations with a convoluted 5/8" CCF pad and the IX insert.

I have to learn to sew and build some insulation systems and my own hammocks.

Using the poncho as a weather shield is a pretty interesting idea. I might have to see what I can rig up. How important would you say the shock cord on the long sides of the poncho is?

Sounds like you have some pretty cool setups, dsouth. Is your bug net the one from Papa Smurf? How do you like your IX UQ? Did you put it on the outside or the inside when using it with the JRB No Sniveller UQ?

I think the side shock cord is important. It helps shape the cover and make a much more effective seal. With a simple non-asym hammock, it can come over the top edge, making an excellent wind shield.

Was planning on using a Integral Designs or GoLite poncho, but I had the good fortune to work with a fellow who makes ponchos and wanted some items I had in trade. That allowed getting custom design.

My poncho is 59"x104" and has a slit for the head opening, like the MLD ponchos. Instead of a hood, it has a 3" collar with a drawstring at the top, much like the BMW ponchos once offered at BPL. I wear a Tilley hat and you don't need a 100% seal as an under cover (it is upside down!) so I saved the weight and hassle of a hood. The shock cord channel/hems end in diagonals, so the hems don't cross each other. I used 1/8" shock cord across the ends and 3/32" down the sides. All four corners have mini-toggles. There is one mitten hook on each end shock cord, so the end can be gathered like a hammock and the mitten hook completes the suspension. The end shock cord is simply looped though the hammock end of the suspension. The side cords can be micro-adjusted for the hammock and whatever mix of insulation I have below. All the extra hardware adds 2.7oz. I made a belt of light cord, with a fixed loop on one end and a mitten hook on a taut line hitch on the other for an adjustable belt. That hangs on the stuff sack drawstring for storage. The poncho can still be used for a solo shelter with some care to seal the head opening/collar

I've tested the system overnight several times and had only minimal condensation using a space blanket alone, with a foam pad, or a space blanket/polyfill sandwich— nothing more than a light film of moisture and all under the hammock, so my clothing and sleeping bag were not damp. I'll hazard to guess you get a 10F bump with the cover alone and more if there is cold wind. The small Hennessy asym tarp can be pitched low and give decent protection. With a larger tarp and the under cover, it could get pretty nasty and stay dry. With all the shock cords, you can dial in the amount of ventilation you want.

The IX UQ I have is a two layer with what is called a torso heater (pleated insert). It was one of the original designs by MacEntyre over at hammock forums. It is sized the same as the HH Super Shelter pad and it is not covered hence the low weight. I used it exclusively with my Adventure Racer last August on my Katahdin to Monson hike. It performed perfectly. We had a couple of nights into the 40's and I never got cold. I used the IX between the JRB and the hammock on Roan Mountain. The bug net that I have was made for me by a dear friend using the HUG design by dejoha on hammock forums (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24029).

I tend to agree with you Dale, I think that I am paying about a 20 oz penalty for having a hammock.

744- BlackBird 1.1 Double
314- LeighLo 2/3 UQ
409- MLD Top Quilt
383- Zpaks Z Dreamer

That gives me a total of 1850 grams or 66oz or 4.12lbs. Yes it could be lighter but overall I think that is pretty good for everything, shelter and sleeping. In the end I have decided that sleeping in a hammock and having a huge tarp that I can cook under or hang out if its storming is worth the extra 20oz.

I've really enjoyed this thread because my evolution to hammocking went as follows:

1 – Tent, inflatable Thermarest, sleeping bag
2 – 8×10 tarp, Polycro groundsheet, Z-Rest, sleeping bag
3 – Gatewood Cape, Polycro groundsheet, GG Nightlite, GG Thinlight, BPL UL60 Quilt
4 – Speer hammock, Speer tarp, Speer straps, Z-Rest, UL60 Quilt
5 – Grand Trunk Nano-7 Hammock, Lawson Equipment HexaLite Cuben Hex Tarp, Whoopie Slings, Te-Wa Summer Breeze UQ, UL60 Quilt

I hit my lowest pack weight with option #3 – 932 grams (33 ounces) with the added benefit of not needing other raingear.

When I went to try hammocking my weight for these items almost doubled – growing to 1,767 grams (62 ounces). That was tough to swallow.

Now, for hiking in Pennsylvania from mid-April through October, I use #5. The total weight? 1,274 grams (45 ounces). I'm quite comfortable in the Nano-7 and I'm a big guy (6 foot, 270 pounds).

One side note – I do pick my hammock sites carefully. I was the "Test Subject" who was sleeping in Lawson's Cuben hammock when it failed. I was just about a foot above soft turf when that happened and the memory of it has stuck with me since.

45 oz is good stuff!
i have the benefit of being a lightweight @ 145 lbs – i can get away with a 1.1 traveler.

wb 1.1 traveler, whoopies, 3" alum. toggles, stuff sack: 9.1oz
wbbb 1.0, whoopies, toggles, stuff sack: 16.0
te-wa breeze, 10.3oz
tq, 35~ degree, 12.6oz

netless setup is 31.6 + a 1oz sea to summit headnet
netted bk.bird is 38.9oz
cuben zpacks tarp adds 9.1 for either setup.
41.7 and 48 oz, respectively. to be totally fair, i use a leg pad in the 3oz range. but.. i usually include that in my PACK weight, not in shelter weight.

Kevin, i'd bet the differences in our UL weight is the tree straps, i am using amsteel with bowlines for tree straps. like mentioned, a few sticks inserted protects softer trees.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14824

I have the Hennessy insulation system (sans space blanket) for my hyperlite. I'm not too enamored of it because it's a pain to thread it, but for summer use it's nice because you don't have to struggle to keep the pad positioned under you. In the winter I use a double wal-mart pad. They overlap in the middle and are single thickness on the sides. The double pad doesn't seem to get out of position, or if it does, the overall width is such that it doesn't matter. I don't use the super shelter top. I just snug the asym tarp down to the hammock sides in winter. I've been ok in it into the low teens so far. Yes I wake up to hoarfrost covering the interior, but it dusts off easily enough. The dual-use rain gear ideas are fine (I have the Hennessy cape/tarp)until you get a raging downpour in camp. Then you're faced with the choice of staying under your tarp, or getting soaked say if you have to venture out to take care of business. I've come to prefer the very light Dry-Ducks tyvek rain gear (sold here until recently) for that reason.

Toggles and slings might make life easy, but with a little practice, the standard lashing isn't much more difficult and it saves a little weight. So my hang is:

Summer
Hyperlite – 26 oz.
Dry-Ducks – 12 oz.
insulation system – 16 oz.

Winter
drop HH insulation
add 2 shortened wal-mart pads – 22 oz.

I had never even heard of DP Hammocks until today, but they sell a 3/4 oz head to waist bug net for $10:

http://www.dphammockgear.com/hammocks–bug-net.html

Certainly seems worth trying to me. Has any one used one of their hammocks?

Actually the stock Hennessy suspension is heavier than Dynaglide whoopie slings with toggle. I do not have access to the info at the moment but I did post on hammock forums back when I changed out my hyperlight stock to whoopies. It was somewhere around 2.5 oz lighter. The Hennessy stock lines are large and heavy.

The ropes I replaced on my Hennessy Explorer are 4.4oz total vs the 6' (finished length) Amsteel whoopie slings that are 1.4oz/pair.

Keith Selbo wrote: "The dual-use rain gear ideas are fine (I have the Hennessy cape/tarp)until you get a raging downpour in camp. Then you're faced with the choice of staying under your tarp, or getting soaked say if you have to venture out to take care of business."

That is always a challenge with dual-use rain gear. The best work-round so far is the DriDucks emergency poncho that is 2.8oz. I been taking it along for summer day hikes where I want some sort of rain gear, but the weather is forecast good. I normally have a windshirt for the light fallin' dew. There's always the ol' 45 gallon LDPE trash can liner at 1.4oz, which also makes a great half-bivy, Q&D ground cloth, etc. Snip head and arm holes in it and you can look like some sort of mountaineering Monty Python character, but a DRY one :)