what to make with M50?

a-If it is lighter than noseeum netting, you could replace most things used as netting with the m50.

b-Baffles for down?

c-lining for two layer wpb.

d-coffee filters

e-sump screens

f-shop rags

a-it is about the same but cost $25yd so i'll stick with the $2.5yd noseeum
b-same as above, but i use .33 cuben for my baffles
c-I had considered this and may go that route
d-not at $25yd (i know now its only $20 but i paid more)
e-if this is what i am thinking than perhaps again the cost comes into mind
f-see d&e

seems like you don't thinks it's good for much huh Dave?

-Tim

The idea for the quilt sounds good as does the lining for a WPB coat. Maybe a nice airy shirt to insure anyone on the trail can see you coming! ;)

I feel a bit sorry for you Tim because this is what I was talking about in a previous post. M50 doesn't seem to fill a real space in the market now since it's not a good as was hoped for. If M55 turns out to be really good then I think it is definitely doomed.

I have nothing against Thru-hiker and the people that run it, I want them to stay in business, but it seems that M50 wasn't tested very well. Maybe that's the procedure for fabric suppliers, they supply it and you test it, but it's not even been a year and people are talking about how M50 isn't so good. I just hope there aren't to many other people left with $200 dollars worth of material they can figure out how to use.

How about a bivy like the one at Suluk. It uses M50 for the top.

here

bivy wouldn't be too bad but again the fabric isn't very wind/water resistant, and i now hammock

-Tim

If you are full time hammock now I think you gotta go synthetic top quilt or even an underquilt. Never seen an M50 UQ – do it!

Ryan

i think top quilt is fine but the UQ will get robbed of heat since the fabric won't resist wind much at all. I am thinking a 2.5oz APEX quilt is in order.

-Tim

2 Top quilts.

"i think top quilt is fine but the UQ will get robbed of heat since the fabric won't resist wind much at all."

Tim-

Why would an UQ be robbed of anymore heat than a top quilt? Both are snugged up against the body and have the same basic construction. Seems like the Apex would keep the heat close, and any that got past it would be useless regardless of top or under configuration. I'm probably missing something simple.

Ryan

it is the job of the shell fabric to keep wind from cooling the air trapped in the insulation. M50 has very little wind resistance. The top quilt is protected inside the hammock, but the underquilt is exposed to the air outside the hammock where a slight breeze will blow the heated air out of the quilt replacing it with unheated air.

-Tim

Hmmm. Yeah, I guess I can see that.

Ryan

Tim, My personel experience with M50 has been great. I have made both a quilt and jacket. I have not noticed any issues with the fabric ability to hold down but maybe it is just the amount of use. The breathability appears to be great. I have not had any experience with shedding water or found wind resistance to be an issue though this may be lack of demanding test conditions.

Given the importance of breathability to the function of wind shirts and bivys I would think M50 may be ideal, if M50 still maintains a reasonable level of wind resistance. When it is said that M50 doesnt shed wind as well as M55 or M90 I would really like to know what the measured loss is. If small then the trade off for improved breathability may make it a better choice for many applications.

I would like to hear other peoples observations with M50, but in addition I'd really like to see some test data on M50 vs M55 vs 7D to support those observations.

Performance Characteritics to know to make meaningful decisions:
* Fabric Weight – known for all 3
* Beathability – Moisture vapor transmission rate?
* Down proofness – test ?
* Water Resistance- static column test results?
* Wind Resitance – ?
* Durability – tear? abrasion?
* Sewability – ?

If anyone know how we might get these results please chime in.

Thanks, Jamie

Tim, I don't think it's true that M50 has very little wind resistance. I've used a down m50 quilt (about 10oz down) for probably 50 nights down to low 20s as well as a m50 down jacket and wind resistance hasn't been an issue for me at all. Both items shed some down, but it doesn't bother me much. Of m50's shortcomings, I think that the DWR is the one that limits the fabric the most. I probably wouldn't make a windshirt out of it, mostly because I like my windshirt to be very water resistant so I can use it as my rain gear in light or short showers, and I wouldn't use m50 for a bivy that I expected to get lots of splash, but I definitely am very happy with the m50 items I made.

All that being said, I think a 2.5 oz Apex quilt would be the perfect application…

sounds like it is better than i have heard. maybe 1 2.5oz APEX quilt and one 20-30* down one are in order.

-Tim

The M50 I have seems to have really good wind resistance. I can only just force air through it by breathing. I would expect any heat loss from "wind cut" the be heavily trumped in importance by the billow effect said air would create on the quilt / bag. It has more air resistance (slightly) than the material on my golite ultra20 shell.

I just recieved a sample of the Tigoat 7D fabric. My quick take is excellent.

I plan to use the M50 for a summer APEX quilt (probably do silk inner) and maybe bottom 2/3 of a bivy. The down leaking report(s) have scared me away from using it for my colder weather quilt. We'll see after I play around with these a little more.

James

if i use down it will be either the thru-hiker 900 i got in my quilt kit (only way to buy more than 5 yds was to get one of these) or the 900 fill i use in my quilts so downproofness isn't a big deal as there are hardly any feathers to poke out.

it is good to hear that the wind resistance is better than i had heard, i guess you guys have restored my faith and i'll have to give it a try.

-Tim

I thought I saw a test on M50 air permeability that Richard or Roger did. Maybe the same time as the HH tests a while back? Might be a good way to see how M50 compares to other fabrics.

Ryan