Prolite 3S vs POE Max Compact

the POE Max Compact has no insulation inside – no foam. so i’ve heard that its strictly a summer pad (unless you’re a pretty warm sleeper). POE lists no r-value for it. i don’t have one, i’m only quoting others.

i just ordered a Max Thermo ($34 at REI Outlet) because i really need the cush AND the insulation. it’s pretty heavy (1 lb 4 oz), but way lighter than my previous cushy pad, a Thermarest LE (over two pounds!). the BPL-recommended practice of a torso pad plus Tylenol PM just didn’t work for me. ;)

> the BPL-recommended practice of a torso pad plus Tylenol PM just didn’t work for me. ;)

Yeah, I tried that combo when ground-sleeping this fall. It just didn’t cut it for me. Maybe Codeine 3…

Hrm.. ok, so the Max thermo in 3/4 length http://www.pacoutdoor.com/2006/index.cfm?action=product&productID=6&groupID=1&familyID=1
is 15 ounces. That’s only 2 ounces more, not too bad.

The only other difference would be self inflating vs blow up. Are self inflating pads considered more comfortable? I would imagine that a self inflating pad is firmer than a blow up.. or maybe that’s just my misconception. Unfortunately, I don’t have any local shops that stock POE pads so I can test it out.

I really like the POE pads. You can get a 3/4 version of the Max Thermo which weighs in at 16.5 ounces on my scale. For greater flexibility, you could get a Max Compact 3/4 and bring a CCF pad when you need additional insulation. Gossamer Gear’s Thinlight would be a good choice (2 ounces).

FWIW, the mid-20’s comfort rating mentioned by Ken Knight doesn’t quite do it for me. I start getting uncomfortable on the Max Compact in the mid-30’s. I’ve used the Max Thermo in the mid 20’s. I was cold the first time I used it below freezing but that must’ve a fluke as I’ve been fine since.

“The only other difference would be self inflating vs blow up. Are self inflating pads considered more comfortable? “

The blow-up pads get just as firm as the self-inflaters. In fact, I usually have to lay on the pad and let a little air out to reduce the firmness a bit. You’ll be able to tweak it to you liking. The only complaints I’ve ever heard about the comfort of POE’s blow up pads is some people say it’s like sleeping on a beach ball. That’s because they’re inflating the pad all the way and not letting a little air out as I described. I don’t think there is any comparison between the comfort levels of self-inflaters vs. blow-ups, especially if you’re a side sleeper.

I have used the Insul Mat Max Compact full-length for about a year, and found it start to get chilli below 40-35 degrees.
Extremely comfortable though.
I ordered a Max Thermo 3/4, so I will see that does.

I love my POE max-thermo 3/4 length. It is 48″ long (works well with my 6’1″ self) and weights 16 oz on my scale. I cut a 24″ piece of foam for my feet (and sit pad use). For temps around freezing and below, I add a full lenght foam pad underneath the max-thermo.
Like sleeping on a cloud in heaven. (Don’t leave home without it!)

for those of you using a 3/4-length, 2.5 inch thick mattress, do you have any problem with the drop-off and your legs? when i’ve slept on a 2″ thick 3/4 length pad, i’ve found it very uncomfortable for my legs. do y’all just build up all of your extra stuff underneath them? i ordered the full-length for this reason.

“for those of you using a 3/4-length, 2.5 inch thick mattress, do you have any problem with the drop-off and your legs? “

I have used my 3/4 pad both with and without support under my legs. While I don’t experience any particular discomfort without support it sounds like you might. When I do put something under my legs its usually for insulation. I just use my pack, face down.

You can ‘adjust’ the height of the pad by lying on it, fully inflated, and opening the valve to deflate until you sort of sink into the pad. I find I can almost get the pad to cradle my body. I don’t know if this will work for you as your legs might still be too high after applying this method. You might want to just suck up the extra 6 or so ounces and get the full-length version.

If you are actually 2.5 inches off the ground while lying on the pad, it’s probably too firm. These pads are best when your heavy points (hips, shoulders) are suspended just off the ground, and the 2.5 inches is coming up to meet the rest of your body, distributing presure more evenly.

Incorrect information on a manufacturers website is an absolute turn off when I buy gear.

Check out their site: http://www.pacoutdoor.com/2006/index.cfm?action=product&productID=6&groupID=1&familyID=1

1) The long is listed as the same weight in grams as the regular, but 2 ounces heavier.

2) The 3/4 length packs to 4"x10", while the regular packs smaller to 3"x10"

Although it's 2.5" thick in some areas, it seems the seems are essentially 0". Just as I don't like a Z-rest because it's actually just a thin mat with bumps that flatten out some when I lay on it, I don't think I would like a 0-2.5" pad. I'm a fan of flat surfaces also, do these columns get annoying?

Good points. I didn't think about the seams. Hrm.. well, I guess I know for sure once I try it out and weigh it. Worse case is a new post in the Gear Swap section ;-)

Frank,

I have not tested blow up mats, so I can't give any real evidence, but my thought was that a pad like this is essentially one long tube of air which curls around several times. If your weight pushes down on one area, then another area must be trying to expand to compensate.

With a thermarest type pad, I think it can only reach a specific height since the foam is holding sections together. I think if there was a pad without foam, you would sink in the middle and not have any insulation under you, so that's why these pads either distribute the air (POE) or restrict it's distribution (Thermarest).

My current "self-inflating" Thermarest does almost no inflating by itself. Granted I keep in rolled at all times; I just find it easier to keep it small all the time so it packs smaller, while I can still blow it up to get the desired firmness. I've actually never felt cold below me with any pad (maybe just haven't camped on ground that was cold enough) so I'm sufficiently happy with 1". The packing size of the POE seems great if the small is really 3×10. I normally squeeze out the air of my pad, roll it, suck out any remaining air possible, re-roll, and then put it in the stuff sack I made. A Thermarest folded in half before rolling is incredibly small, and that's why I like them!

There is indeed some incorrect information on POE's site. The 20×72 certainly doesn't pack down that small. I'm thinking 5×10. The weight is right on or only off by an ounce. I'll measure & weigh my Max Thermo tonight and post the info.

As for the seams, they're in the middle of the tube's width and the tubes bunch together, so having a cold spot at the seams just isn't an issue. A properly inflated Max Thermo or Big Agnes Air Core pad is hands-down more comfortable than a 1" self inflater. I'm sure there are a few out there who would argue that point but as long as you let a little air out of the pad so that it's not so firm, you'll sleep very well. Some prefer the Big Agnes Air Core pads as they have a few more columns. I have a BA Air Core 3/4 and I don't notice a difference in comfort level. Ultimately, I bought the POE pads as I've not heard much about them failing (BA pads seem to have had/still have a problem with 'flat tires'). A bit cheaper, too…

What I meant is that they list the weight both in grams and ounces, and they don't agree in conversions. I have not tried this type of pad, but it just can't be as superior as 2.5" sounds can it? The "average" height must be ~1.25", and it doesn't have the foam. If they don't list an R value, it must not be as high as other pads.

Andy,

Sorry for the delay in posting this info. By my scale the regular length POE Max Thermo weighs as follows:

With stock stuff sack & repair kit: 22.6oz/641g
Without stuff sack: 21.6oz/613g

The packed size is roughly 10.5" x 5". I'm sure it would compress into a smaller stuff sack but it might be tough to get the pad in and out.

As for the height of the pad, it's 2.5" when fully inflated. Most people are more comfortable with a little less air in the pad and you can easily adjust this. The pad will, of course, compress under your weight somewhat, especailly if not fully inflated. This allows one to sort of sink into the pad, without hips or shoulders ever touching the ground. That's where the great comfort comes from. I'm not sure what you mean by "average height" but try to picture a pool float when you think of the POE inflatables, which is essentially what they are.

The pad does have foam inside, not for padding (that's what the air is for) but to take up some room which increases the R value. The foam, according to a POE custermor service rep I talked to, is in the form of free floating strips running down the length of the air tubes and not bonded to the interior surface of the mat. The only purpose the foam serves is to provide dead air space inside the mat. Again, I am comfortable on the Max Thermo down to around the mid-20's; any colder and I need to add a 1/8" closed cell pad on top. As usual, temperature tolerance will vary from on person to the next. It's been my observation that self-inflaters such as the Prolite pads have a higher R value. On an inch thick self-inflater, I can usually comfortably sleep down into single digits. Hope this helps!