Heavy pack, light gear (Bora 80 vs Mariposa)

You might also consider a Granite Gear pack like the Vapor Trail, or one of the Nimbus Packs, or a ULA pack. You’d get a top notch suspension in a two to three pound pack, depending upon which one you select. Before you settle on hacking the Bora, if you are not familiar with the aforementioned packs, why not take a look at them. You might even be able to try on a Granite Gear pack at an REI store. If your Bora is in good condition you might be able to sell it and pay for a portion of the cost of one of these lighter packs with a suspension more to your liking. Just a thought.

Ive used a fair handful of packs, but I keep coming back to my MountainSmith Ghost. Its 3000ci or so, and weighs roughly 2.4lbs.

The reason I like it so much is the suspension. It weights quite a bit more than other packs, but I find it to be much more comfortable. More comfort equals less perceived work. Less perceived work equals longer and happier trail miles.

That being said, with a 10lbs base weight, a 5lbs pack is a full 50% additional weight. Is the suspension THAT good? Really? Really? I think your in the realm of diminishing returns there. Lots of good packs weigh a fraction of the Bora 80 and provide excellent suspension thats certainly adequate to support ten whole pounds.

> 1) Has anyone moved away from the really light packs back to heavier packs for the improved suspension – and does this work over the long haul better?

I’m still using my 8-pound Dana Design pack for winter backcountry ski trips, mostly because my only other large-volume pack is a LuxuryLite (not designed for that sort of use). It’s kinda silly, since the pack alone is more than 1/3 of my base weight.

Otherwise, my Mariposa Plus is working great for me. I did the Wonderland Trail (93 miles) and more with it this fall, and I didn’t even bother inserting the carbon fiber stays. It rode very well, with loads up to 25 pounds (including food and water). With your base weight that low, I’m surprised that you would need full-on suspension. I just hitch the hip belt over my gut and barely tighten the shoulder straps. It rides great, at least for me, and I’m grateful for saving a few pounds.

Dan Mchale says an endless amount about just that subject at mchalepacks.com

In my haste to go light I first bought a GG whisper. For a first time UL pack I was blinded by the light, Ha Ha.
Well, next I talked to Brian at ULA and ended up with a Conduit. It is perfect. Good load control, with the right amount of room. I think you can get the best of both worlds without going Ultra heavy.

I have a similar story. Went through alot of frameless packs, then found the Atmos 50. Heavier at three pounds, but what a pack. In short, yes, to me it was worth it.

IMO The REI UL 45 which is on sale weighs 2 lbs. 10 oz. and is a great mid weight pack which can be modified. I had looked at the Bora and Granite Gear packs but went for the REI and haven’t looked back. (I put a review up on the external pack reader review forum, w/ picture of the harness & stay set up which renders it a “framed” pack which doesn’t hurt my back and is thoroughly comfortable.)

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47856709&parent_category_rn=4500574&vcat=REI_SEARCH

J R & others,

> Is the suspension THAT good? Really? Really?

Answer: No!

I just came back from a night hike where I stuffed my GG load into my Bora. Aiie! What a difference. Yes the Bora is much, much more comfortable but weight is weight. All my joints felt the additional pounding of that weight. I couldn’t spring over logs, I couldn’t float up over hills – I trudged. In fact I felt old injuries start to talk to me so I immediately cut my hike short.

I’m still not in top form so with my GG, after about 5 fast miles I have to undo my hip belt to give my lower back a break. Even restoring weight to the hip belt leaves weight somewhat on the shoulders. So I’ll either continue investigating other packs or continue to train.

To everyone: thanks so much for your prompt replies. Wow..I posted that this afternoon and after tonights hike here are all these replies.

What a community.

Mark

Mark,
I echo pj’s opinion, please try the Granite Gear Vapor trail(59liters at 2lbs) and the Nimbus Ozone(63l at 3lbs). I own the N.O. and it is the most comfortable pack I have ever worn. With 15lbs or less I can literally forget Im wearing it, like that feeling you (dont) have with a comfortable wristwatch. In fact I wore it while rock climbing once. The comfort I think is due to a big ‘memory foam’ type back pad which comforms to my back, a hip belt which should be worn snug to support the weight on the hips, and very good shoulder straps which are adjustable in both height and width (on the N.O.) These are not SUL packs, but are perfect for what I carry. I added a lid for stuff I take in and out all day long.
http://www.granitegear.com

“Anybody gone back to a heavier pack from a lighter pack?”

Yes, maybe, I hope. I’ve just bought (on sale, of course) a 3-pound Osprey Atmos 50, and if it’s as comfortable all day on the trail as it is for 15 minutes around the block, it may very well replace my beloved 2-pound Granite Gear Vapor Trail (everything the others say about it is true.)(12/2 Edit: see my next post below.)

Is the extra weight of the Atmos 50 worth it? It may well be. The hipbelt pouches are really convenient, and I’d forgotten how much I like having a lid compartment and a couple of outside pockets. That compartment and those pockets actually save some weight: I store my tent and rain gear in them, eliminating 3 stuff sacks (about 5 ounces) in the process. As a side benefit, it isolates potentially wet gear from the main compartment, and lets me store the maybe-dry tent body separately from the not-so-dry tent fly, keeping the body drier.

Since it’s about 500 cubic inches smaller than the Vapor Trail, it was a little tighter fit to get my gear in (and I carry light, mainstream gear rather than true ultralight gear), but I think it’s going to be large enough to hold a week’s worth of food and some warm clothes – barely, but doable.

The ride is different than any pack I’ve used; it’s the first time I’ve never felt the need to snug the load lifters all the way down. The Airspeed suspension and the swiss-cheese hipbelt and shoulder straps are very comfortable, and the hipbelt tightens more evenly and comfortably than any I’ve ever worn.

The rated weight is 35+ pounds, versus 30 for the Vapor Trail. My heaviest load (cool weather week) is about 27 pounds. With that load, I could feel I was nearing the limit of the VT suspension, but it doesn’t seem to affect the feel or fit of the Atmos 50 (again, if 15 minutes is an accurate test.) Why is the overkill in weight rating important to me? Because I normally carry only 1 quart of water, but occasionally have to add 2 or 3 quarts for a dry overnight stretch. That definitely overwhelms the VT suspension, but doesn’t appear to affect the Atmos. (And, the Atmos has that unique in-the-suspension space to store the extra water.)

So, I’m looking forward to seeing how this “backward” step works out.

I have a Bora 60, a Bora 40 and another one that’s about a 20L daypack. Arcteryx packs impress me because they are so comfortable to wear and as I tend to do extended overseas trips, they can take a pounding as they are built so well. I sort of think a great fitting comfortable pack is so much easier to carry that any extra weight is negated.
So for long haul trips where the pack has to be manhandled and abused for months day in and day out, Arcteryx packs are great.*

* (Writer does not work for or receive financial reward from Arcteryx)!.

Well, I’ve spent the day on some longer dayhikes, and did side-by-side comparisons of the Atmos 50 and Vapor Trail on the same two-mile trail with nearly identical loads. (The differences, other than the pack itself, were the brand-specific rain cover and the Thermarest: I carried a Prolite 3 full-length in the Atmos, and a Prolite 4 short in the Vapor Trail – the same load difference I’d carry on the trail.) The load I was carrying was the load I’d take to Isle Royale for a week, and was about 25 pounds, excluding the pack.

Both packs handled the load OK, but…

The Atmos 50 just barely held the load; I used all the outside pockets, had the lid and the extension sleeve packed full, and both hipbelt pockets were loaded. I had to pull the load lifters pretty much all the way down, and noticed that I could feel the bar across the top of the pack against the top of my shoulders – not uncomfortable, but there. Also, the hipbelt started to collapse – not much, but a little.

The Vapor Trail worked much better. The extension sleeve was about half full (in fairness, the VT’s capacity is about 600 cu. in. more than the Atmos 50, so the packs aren’t apples-to-apples; but, for this particular load, I like the extra capacity.) The hipbelt carried the weight better. I did notice that the backpad heated up my back; the airflow feature of the Atmos 50 does seem to work, at least in cool weather.

The extra pockets on the Atmos are handy, sort of, but I found that using some of the zippered Granite Gear sacks were just as handy (maybe because I’m really used to using the Vapor Trail?) The floating lid of the Atmos seemed to bump the back of my head, but here again I’m not used to a lid, so it just may be that I didn’t have the lid adjusted right.

I may play with the Atmos some more, but I think I’m leaning toward staying with the Vapor Trail. It will keep my load a pound or pound and a half lighter, and I won’t be worrying about that multi-piece frame failing.

I’ll confess up front that I’ve never tried any of the larger SUL packs.

I do have a VauDe silnylon daypack (1500 cu/i) and I only use it as a summit bag when my main pack lacks a removable top lid. If I plan on carrying a 1500 cu/i pack for any length of time I will grab by Osprey Stratus 24 everytime.

I couldn’t care less that the VauDe weighs 1/3rd the weight of the Osprey. The Osprey flat out is much more comfortable for me.

I use a Ultralight 45 (UL45) by REI. It works pretty well. I haven't really used many other ultralight packs. Some complaints I have, which are probably typical of ultralight packs is "lack of stability." The pack tends to deform in shape easily. If I tighten it down real hard, the plastic backbone will bow out.

Just a side note, Has anybody tried to bring and umbrella while ultralight backpacking? I find it's nice for keeping the rain off your shoulders and you face.

http://www.squidoo.com/PackingLightInLife

I doubt you would need 80L of space. A smaller Bora would suit you fine.

I've lightened up a lot in the last 3 years, but I still haven't given up a comfy pack. When you add a lot of food and weight, your base weight becomes only part of what you are carrying. I won't trade load transfer for lightweight, but I don't overdo it either.