Shelter Help: HMG Echo II Shelter or others

have you tried using tape to spec out the dimensions on the floor? i find this helpful and seeing if me and my family will fit in a given shelter system.

I can jump in on this one…

At both of you under 6 feet, your dog and your gear would probably have more than enough room (length wise) to fit into the Echo II Insert. Just remember, as myself and everybody else here at BPL have said, if you use thick sleeping pads (such as a neoair) you might hit the top of the Insert with your head, even at 5'7. As for the space underneath the beak on the Echo II… lots and lots of room.

As for the MLD 'pyramids'… If you were to go with the MLD DuoMid you would have no problems getting you and your wife and your dog inside of it. Myself (6'1 and a buddy 6'3) both got into one a few weeks ago without any hint of running out of room. Yes, it is 'enclosed' but it has a ton of headroom and square footage of space – but, it is not fully enclosed without the DuoInnerNet (but than, at 46 inches, you are going to probably still hit your head on the netting).

I would not want to sit here and say "you should go with xyz" by any means. I own a Echo II and a Echo I and have used the DuoMid and would love to own a cuben fiber DuoMid. Simply sharing my thoughts as a owner/user.

Do you mean sitting up in the Echo II while on your neo?

Yes.

Echo I on the left, Echo II on the right.

From the bpl product review page.

It all really comes down to what do you use your tent for? Do you use your tent to get into and fall asleep, or do you use your tent to get in and relax and do a bunch of stuff in. All of these rectangular tents have this issue – that is why people who use their tents for more than just sleeping love the pyramid tents.

If you are the kind of hiker who is on the trail until it gets dark, you setup your tent and crawl in and go to sleep, and reverse things in the morning, than no big deal. But if you are the kind of hiker who gets into their tent to repack their bags, to change cloths, to sit up and cook food, and all that other stuff, than you just have to expect to hit your head, eh.

If I fully extend my GG LT4 poles and use only the Echo II tarp, I do not hit my head, but as soon as I attach the insert, I just have to expect to hit my head. Same thing happens with my ZPacks Hexamid/Hexanet. It is just what I expect to have happen with designs like this. They are not, after all, a TarpTent Rainbow, eh! If I want head room, I take it. If I want a bombproof shelter that weights less, I take my HMG! And, if I want even less room and uber light weight, I take my ZPacks!

thanks for clarifying. i wanted to make sure there wasn't a lip or something hitting your head while you were laying down.

I did do a rough tape job of the specified dimensions and laid out our sleeping pads for reference. We would definitely have enough room length-wise and I dont think that the width would be a problem either. I see what you mean by the headroom. I do use a kookabay 2.5 inch thick pad (similar to neoair) so i would probably hit my head on the netting.

I appreciate the comments you guys posted and i do think that i will head toward the Echo II. The shelter system seems pretty bomber, is this the general observation from those who own one/have used one? At this price, I would definitely want this to last.

I love this site by the way. I have been lurking for awhile taking everyone's tips and hints and drooling over the neat gear everyone has. It has made me come to realize that the best part of backpacking for me, is the trail itself, and by having a lighter load, enjoying this aspect is so much easier to attain.

If you were to go with the MLD DuoMid you would have no problems getting you and your wife and your dog inside of it

I think it would be very cramped.

If you camp where there are trees you can always suspend your pyramid and eliminate your center pole. I usually string a line between two trees and then just clip my Duomid to the line with a #2 mini.

I also got the bottom netting which eliminates the need for the more confining and extra weight of the inner nest.

Just a thought.

I have an MLD Trailstar with a BearPaw PentaNet 2 Inner. The shelter provides more than enough room for my girlfriend (5'6") and I (5'10") and our 90 lb dog.

You've got the flexibility of using the Trailstar by itself when you don't need the inner net, resulting in even more floor area. You can pitch the trailstar high or low depending on weather conditions and in lot of different pitch variations, some of which are very weatherproof.

The trailstar and PentaNet 2 together, seam sealed and with guylines attached come in at about 2.5 lbs. Seperate, they're both around 1.25 lbs each give or take an ounce or two on one or the other.

The shelter/net tent rely on a center pole to be set up but like other MLD mids, but you have the ability to hang the shelter and net tent from an overhead branch or if you have long enough trekking poles, can set them up in an inverted V (like this /) and sleep together between the poles.

I've got a few photos I can post maybe later tonight or later this weekend (I'm trying to pack up for a trip at the moment), if you're interested.

Not to add to the options you are considering and thus even more confuse you… but if you are open for alternatives, I would put the ZPacks Hexamid Twin Tent within the list of serious contenders.

It is going to give you more square footage than anything already listed, be much better in the wind (though not serious 4 season protection like the HMG Echo II could give) and at 11.5 ounces for the extended beak, it will pretty much puts the rest of the options into a other “heavier” category!

Of course, the HMG Echo is probably the only option listed thus far that you can buy tonight and have in your house by the end of next week. That accounts for something!

I did do a rough tape job of the specified dimensions and laid out our sleeping pads for reference
That is a good suggestion but it is only good to eliminate a floor plan that it is too small.
For example this one :

At this point all you know is that your mats will fit in , not with you inside and on top of them (shoulder and head room…)
So you now need to make a 3d version that gives you an idea of how much the sloping walls cut into your space.
Something like this :

Franco

I was actually strongly considering both of these shelters. I do love the trailstar paired with the pentatent. I love the versatility of the shelter, however I'm not certain about leaving one side of the shelter up. Also not too sold on the silnylon material and again the center pole design (i understand that you can install an inverted V and that might be an option for us to consider).

The Zpacks Hexamid was also another strong consideration. I did not realize that the pole wasn't in the center. However i was concerned with the durability of this shelter. I believe they use a lighter weight cuben material than other shelters. I'm curious how durable this is in comparison to the echo II shelter. I also think it is as wind stable.

I do appreciate the opinions and want them to keep coming. I would like the tarp experience, so to speak. To me, the HMG echo would provide the best aspects of this, in regards to the views and the ventilation. I guess it really comes down to me deciding between a larger area, vs a more compact design/versatility/availability.

You guys made this tough, haha.

That's a serious set up you have there. I don't think i can go to that extent but i respect it. Right now im working from the specs provided by HMG and the various reviews that exist and using a little imagination

What is the square footage with the pentatent inside the trailstar? How much of this is actually usable (i believe there are some pretty serious sloping walls depending on the pitch).

Aidan,

The MLD Trailstar pitched up off the ground has lots of usable interior space, very little is wasted. Lot’s of options. I can vouch for the storm worthiness of the Trailstar, it’s unbelievably stout, definitely not a fair weather shelter.

Here’s a thread with a few posted photographs of the MLD Trailstar with an inner, Nick Bobroff posted it a few months ago.

MLD Trailstar with Bearpaw PentaNet 2 Inner

Aidan,

I don't know off hand the square footage of the PentaNet 2. You're right that there is some compromise on usable square footage with the PentaNet because of the sloped walls but it's not too bad as seen here:

You can raise the trailstar up higher and hang the PentaNet from the hook at the peak of the trailstar underside to get more ventilation/view if you want it and you can lower it all down, including your "door" for serious storm protection. The PentaNet seems to work best at about 48" height or so.

If you really need more headroom throughout, you could consider adding hooks or tie-outs at the mid-points of the ridges of the PentaNet that could connect to the corresponding hooks on the underside of the mid-point ridges on the Trailstar. It'd be a little fiddly to get it set up and taken down but it's certainly an option.

Here's a couple more photos trying to show the amount of space under the trailstar when using the PentaNet 2:

"I appreciate the comments you guys posted and i do think that i will head toward the Echo II. The shelter system seems pretty bomber, is this the general observation from those who own one/have used one? At this price, I would definitely want this to last."

I have an Echo II, and I put my initial impressions along with some pictures here:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=37481

It seems to be to be very well constructed. I'm pretty sure it's going to last a long time. The floor is some seriously heavy-duty fabric, so that will probably last quite a while also.

It has enough space for two people side by side with space between them. I used it that way the first time I tried it out. I'm not sure about the length, but I feel like there's plenty of space in there, in spite of not having quite enough headroom.

Still, unless it's stormy or buggy, you might not even need the insert. The insert really does trap enough heat to make a noticeable difference in temperature inside the shelter vs outside if you pitch the sides of the tarp low enough to block the draft.

Thanks for the comment/link, Rakesh. I actually emailed HMG with some questions as well and I was a little surprised at some of their responses. I mentioned that we would want our dog sleeping in the tent, and the rep advised against this stating that the dogs nails would poke holes in the floor. Is the floor a lighter-weight cuben or something?

@NickB: What height bathtub floor did you opt for in you pentanet? Did you go with Cuben or silnylon? How is the overall feel/finish of the pentanet? Do you have vestibule space or do you just keep your gear in the net tent when in use?

No problem.

The floor is heavy-duty Cuben, definitely a heavier grade than what the tarp & beak are made of. HMG's warning is a case of HMG being honest; it's a trade-off due to being a laminate rather than a woven fabric. Cuben is really basically mylar; it's not by itself a particularly strong fabric until you layer it up, and even then if you poke a hole in it, it would tear easily. Add a Dyneema (or Spectra, whichever brand name you like better :)) cross hatch, and you get tear resistance… but you can still poke holes in it with something sharp.

One thing you could consider is an Echo II tarp & beak, and then contact Bear Paw and get them (him?) for an insert with a silnylon (which, being woven and stretchy, is less prone to punctures than Cuben) floor.

Aidan,

I ordered my PentaNet 2 with the silnylon extended 6" up the sides. So far, in limited rain/snow, the generous overhang of the trailstar along with the silnylon bathtub floor/sides on the innernet has kept us totally dry.

I went with the silnylon version, as the weight of the insert wasn't a real big concern for me (generally, if the inner net is coming along, it's not a big ambitious trip for me).

There is a little bit of extra space under the canopy of the trailstar around the perimeter of the pentanet where you could store stuff like shoes to keep them out of the elements but outside of the pentanet. You also get a bit of overhang around the entry where you can get out of the elements and under the canopy of the trailstar. With the pentanet design, you lose a little outside storage area/vestibule for more interior enclosed space. For our needs, this made sense. If you don't need quite as much enclosed space and want a larger unenclosed vestibule space under the trailstar, perhaps a Pyranet 2 would be something to consider. Not sure how well it aligns with the corners of the trailstar for set-up purposes but there are folks out there who have used them together.

Workmanship/customer service on the pentanet has been awesome. Very happy with the product and John is receptive to feedback and/or modifications or custom work if necessary.